Episode 97
· 59:10
What's up? I'm Ron Rapatalo, and this is the Ronderings podcast. Around here, I sit down with guests for real, unpolished conversations about the lessons and values that shaped them. And I'll be right there with you, sharing my own take, laughing at myself when I need to, and wondering out loud about this messy thing called life. Glad you pulled up a chair.
Ron Rapatalo:Let's get into it.
Ron Rapatalo:Welcome back to Ronderings. I'm Ron Rapatalo, and today's conversation is one I think a lot of people need right now. I'm joined by Jeremy Schifeling, former Teach for America recruiter, Google leader, and now one of the most sought after career coaches helping Gen Z navigate what might be the toughest job market in years. What makes Jeremy's story powerful is that it didn't start with success. It started with him struggling in the classroom by his own words, sucking at teaching.
Ron Rapatalo:Instead of being the end of story, it became the beginning of everything. In this conversation, we get into why applying it online is becoming less and less effective, how networking has completely changed what actually works now, why referrals are more powerful than ever, and how to build your own luck in a world that feels stacked against you. This is about career pivots, honest self reflection, and finding energy, not just prestige in your work. Let's get into it. Ronderings fam, if you don't follow Jeremy Schifeling, you probably don't follow anything about careers.
Ron Rapatalo:And so Jeremy and I know each other from the world to Teach for America, like admittedly a number of my guests, because there's a hell of a lot of really amazing people like my former guests and our mutual homie, Christian Simmemora, who lives out in the bay with Jeremy. And I just wanna introduce y'all. Jeremy Schifeling is on the mic today. How you doing, Jeremy?
Jeremy Schifeling:I'm doing real good, Ron. So excited to be here, be part of the TFA Mafia.
Ron Rapatalo:It it is it is a mafia, to be clear. I say that all in in very respectable and loving ways. Right? I find so many of us, if you think about our humble beginnings, so many of us just run shit. Like it's a disproportionately.
Ron Rapatalo:It's there's something it's funny, when I was at ASUGSV before I ask you, you know, the litany of questions we chat, I was at an ASUGSV summit panel where Michelle Rhee had a bunch of, surprise surprise, ed tech entrepreneurs and investors on her panel. And it was like related to, is there something in the Teach for America competencies that breeds more like people that, this is my language, eat it, shit? Think there kinda is. If you think, the Teach For America selection, like the achievement, the organization. There were certain things that I think you look for that, surprise surprise, lead to people that are very likely to have an entrepreneurial spirit and a leadership spirit because we look for those things in terms of folks who wanted to enter the classroom.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. And I have a theory about that. Let me lay this on you, Ron. So my belief, especially now that I've coached thousands of students and recent grads and all these folks Yeah. Everyone's got their spark.
Jeremy Schifeling:Everyone's got their gifts. But the biggest difference between TFA folks and your average new grad is that they chose a path that they were passionate about. It wasn't the path of least resistance. It wasn't Bain, or BCG, or McKinsey. It was the path that was actually right for them.
Jeremy Schifeling:And just that simple act of choosing, I think that shows the self selected group compared to so many of us who are on this conveyor belt that we call life.
Ron Rapatalo:I like that description of it, right? Because I think when you pick those it's just like with anything that you self select or like people self select it for Peace Corps or other things, right, or like different fellowships right out of college, right? There's something to like, it curates a group of people. And then you go through this common experience. I think that's also the other part of the magic, right?
Ron Rapatalo:Go through this common experience and you have this common language, right? So we'll get into that more in this episode. We probably have a lot more to say about that, but Jeremy, what is your story?
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. So my story, like so many TFA folks, actually begins in the classroom. And before I even came to TFA, I had started my career as a kindergarten teacher, I was in Philly and then later in Bed Stuy. And I'll be really honest with you, Ron. I sucked at teaching.
Jeremy Schifeling:Unlike all these heroic TFA core members who rock their classrooms, I was absolutely the worst. And so it was only by having my butt kicked that I realized, hey, all these dreams that I thought about being that iconic Dead Poets Society kind of teacher Yeah. Yeah, sorry, Robin Williams. Went out the window, and now I had to find something that I was actually good at, actually where it could add value in the world. And that led me to the nonprofit sector, including TFA, a bunch of NGOs in New York, ultimately into working for LinkedIn later on, focused on helping students and recent grads, all the way to the point that I now have my own company dedicated to helping the next generation find meaningful work.
Jeremy Schifeling:So it really was one of those things where the worst possible outcome, being miserable at the job that I loved, led me to the best possible outcome, which is building something that I cared about.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. What made you decide to do Teach for America out of college? I'm curious what your Teach for America story to choose that path was.
Jeremy Schifeling:And I should be clear, I actually didn't do the core. I just taught straight through undergrad, teaching certificate program, all of that. And I went to Teach for America as a staff member like you
Ron Rapatalo:Got it.
Jeremy Schifeling:Where I got a chance to be a recruiter, right?
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Jeremy Schifeling:And I think for me, it was one of those things about that search for connection. Because it wasn't clicking classroom, I wasn't getting that sense of accomplishment that I craved, I said, I better find another playing field. Otherwise, I'm going just keep striking out.
Ron Rapatalo:I appreciate your honesty there, Jeremy, because I think sometimes when I think about all of us in the Teach for America ecosystem, and you and I didn't do the core, right? But there's something about like, I think one of the mythologies about very successful Teach for America alums is I was amazing in the classroom, then I was amazing at everything else I did. It's like whatever I touched was gold, right? That's not always true because that's not life, right?
Jeremy Schifeling:That's right. I mean, I think the reality again, sometimes their biggest failures are the best ways to learn. Probably my biggest weakness is because school came relatively easy to me as a student, I assumed, like you said, that that was linear. I would go to the other side of the classroom and I would just crush it again, and having my butt kicked was the first thing that really opened my eyes.
Ron Rapatalo:So I'm curious, right, and I'm gonna go a little bit backwards because a lot of me asking about people's stories is a little bit kind of this is my life esque, but I'll do that in a second, is what did you take learning from, quote unquote, getting your butt kicked in the classroom that eventually got you to where you are today?
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah, yeah. So it was a couple things. First of all, I think it was coming to grips with the fact that your dream at 18 or 21 doesn't have to be your dream at 25 and 30 and 40. I'm giving myself permission to have another dream. Number two is you do have to play to your strengths.
Jeremy Schifeling:I know this is so cliche and so corny, but especially now in a world of AI, where AI is pretty good at mediocre stuff, if you're doing a job that you are mediocre at just because it pays a lot of money, guess what? Rude awakening time. You've got to retreat to your strength for safety because otherwise AI is going to eat your lunch. So bottom line, having a new dream, playing to my gifts, that's what led me to where I am today.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. So let's do a little bit of This Is My Life and rewind back. Tell me a little bit about what Jeremy's life was like growing up before you got into college.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. So I think a lot of this desire to become a teacher in the first place came from growing up in Buffalo. So I grew up in Buffalo. Look
Ron Rapatalo:at that, Upstate New York. Okay.
Jeremy Schifeling:That's right.
Ron Rapatalo:I've had some Upstate New York folks on the podcast. Okay.
Jeremy Schifeling:That's awesome. Love it. Shout out to my Western New Yorkers out there. If you've been there, if you grew up there, it's kind of a tough place. You know?
Jeremy Schifeling:It's right there on that lake effect where you're getting all the snow. It's the Rust Belt and all the worst and best ways.
Ron Rapatalo:Let's not talk about the brilliance and some of the hard times that fallen on the Buffalo Bills.
Jeremy Schifeling:I wasn't gonna go there, but seeing your dream team lose four Super Bowls in a row has a certain effect on a kid. What makes you root for the other dog and makes you wanna believe
Ron Rapatalo:That's right.
Jeremy Schifeling:That you can make a bigger dent in the universe if only you find a better way. And I think when I got to school, got to college, I was like, man, all these people up in their ivory tower talking about theories, talking about these social constructs, The only department that's out there in the world doing anything about it is the education department. So that's what ultimately got me into the classroom, got me hooked on this idea that I could make a direct impact.
Ron Rapatalo:Got it. You had mentioned something. I'm gonna get into this mindset a little bit, right? Because oftentimes, and this happens in sports too, right? Where folks who've seen success as athletes have a hard time coaching, Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Folks said this about Michael Jordan. Right?
Jeremy Schifeling:Michael Jordan. And as
Ron Rapatalo:Ford, outside of, like, being the owner of the Hornets, he's become a very successful Formula One NASCAR like owner. Right? Which, you know, his team were like the biggest award or something. I forget what it was, right? And so it shows like he probably learned from that, I'm sure, blah blah blah.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? But I'm curious for you, that mindset of like, you thought that everything would be linear, that you had an easy time in the classroom. Talk to me a little bit about what that meant for you in the classroom, how you tried to change, maybe didn't change, and what that was like when you were teaching in the classroom.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah, absolutely. So I think so much of it comes back to empathy or the lack thereof. Because when you're a student, you're only responsible for yourself. It's easy to think, hey, everyone operates the same way I do. But then when you're responsible for a classroom of 25, five year olds, and they're not doing what you want them to be doing, it kind of breaks your mind.
Jeremy Schifeling:Like what is going on with these kids?
Ron Rapatalo:And it could break your spirits to be clear. Exactly, break your soul. Just because they're cute and they're not, when they're not crying, doesn't mean they can't break your spirits.
Jeremy Schifeling:And let me be really honest with you. My worst possible teaching moment came not when I was teaching kindergarten, but actually when I was a substitute teacher, which I wouldn't recommend as a job for even my worst enemy. You're coming in, you're facing all these angry faces. And I remember I was teaching a group of eighth graders, which I was woefully unqualified to teach. And I was trying to be the cool teacher.
Jeremy Schifeling:I had brought in my brain pop games. I was trying to do a little Jeopardy! With them, and they just weren't having it. They were done. And then I got so mad.
Jeremy Schifeling:I was like, what's wrong with you guys? Don't you want to go to college? Don't you want to be successful in life? And they just started cracking up. I realized, oh my god, I have no idea what's going on in their minds.
Jeremy Schifeling:So that was sort of a very wake up kind of moment about, hey, you gotta understand other people before you can lead them.
Ron Rapatalo:Got it. So let's follow that arc, right? You found out that the classroom wasn't for you, but you still wanted to do impactful work. So then you started working at Teach for America as a recruiter.
Jeremy Schifeling:That's right.
Ron Rapatalo:Talk to me about that experience.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. So again, from the wreckage of my initial career came those silver linings. Like, one of the things I had been doing back in Bed Stuy when I was at this charter school is I was in addition to teaching kindergarten, I was running their website. I was creating a blog. It was like the early days of bloggers.
Ron Rapatalo:Oh my god, look at that. This is where it all makes sense. Keep going. Exactly.
Jeremy Schifeling:And so all those same skills that you needed as a TFA employee back in the day because remember, we didn't have some giant IT team or marketing team. Everything you did, you had to hustle for. I was starting to realize, wait a second, these tools can amplify my hustle. Even as one guy sitting in front of this computer, I could reach 30 families or 3,000 community members or maybe 100,000 potential core members. And so it was one step after another, I started to extrapolate.
Ron Rapatalo:So you got some of those, maybe not early as in you were building this in the eighties with like, you know, things before Netscape Navigator, right? But you were starting to get these like tech skills that allowed you to amplify your work and your ability to do things.
Jeremy Schifeling:Exactly. Okay.
Ron Rapatalo:What was next for you after Teach for America recruitment?
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah, so it was interesting because I remember actually I had this really tough moment where I was trying to figure out, do I go back to teaching, try to have a second at bat? And I actually ended up going even deeper into the dark underbelly that is the nonprofit scene in New York that you know so well, Ron.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, I do.
Jeremy Schifeling:So I went on to work for Echoing Green, which is a seed funder of Teach for America back in
Ron Rapatalo:Yes, the that's right.
Jeremy Schifeling:Think they gave Wendy her second check after Ross Perot. So this is dating myself, really. And then ultimately went to another nonprofit called iMentor. And iMentor really lit a fire for me because iMentor was the first social enterprise I worked at. Remember, TFA was always hustling, trying to raise money, trying to take down all these rich people.
Jeremy Schifeling:IMentor was like, what if we built our own product and we sold it to other nonprofits? Maybe we could become sustainable. So again, getting these ideas about what's possible, not just accepting the status quo.
Ron Rapatalo:Wow. This makes a lot of sense in deepening your expertise. What did you do at Echoing Green and iMentor? What were you learning All
Jeremy Schifeling:the stuff I did at TFA. This is interesting. It's true that careers are not linear. There's more of a roller coaster oscillation And to yet, they are very much like building a house where once you have the foundation, you don't throw it away in the next job. You build on that foundation.
Jeremy Schifeling:I remember. I can't even remember his name now. I feel so bad about this. There was a guy who sat right next to me in my first couple months at TFA who was like a year ahead of me. And he was like, Jeremy, do you know what a VLOOKUP is?
Jeremy Schifeling:Do you know what pivot table is?
Ron Rapatalo:Oh my god, yeah.
Jeremy Schifeling:And I remember my mind just melting when he showed me this stuff in Excel. And of course, when I went to Echoing Green for my interview, they were like, well, what can you do for us? I was like, do you know about pivot tables? So Dan, I'm Domino's.
Ron Rapatalo:That's such like an Excel nerd thing to share. And like, in the grander scheme of things, that's like intermediate stuff of like, you could start like doing v basic and coding with it. Like, you know, you create like crazy spreadsheets that connected. So in the way back machine, I used to work in Morgan Stanley. I saw folks who did complicated stuff with like spreadsheets.
Ron Rapatalo:And so that's how I learned about VLOOKUPs and pivot tables and all those things, because I had to work with mortgage loan data. And eventually it was like, I first was doing some of the basic stuff, but then I started perfecting the mortgage loans because we were not only buying loans, but also taking loans in and lending money out. You had to make the loans met certain criteria and so there was a program that did a lot of this stuff, but it boots stuff out and you had to kind of play with it, manipulate it a little bit. And so I kind of learned on the fly. Was like, Ryan, you wanna learn this?
Ron Rapatalo:I'm like, shit, why not? And so
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah, yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:It's very surprising even if we fast forward to today, how few people, no matter your age, know how to do that stuff. They just like, and if you think about the coding you have to do inside of Excel, it's like, don't just put numbers like formulas. Oh my God, wait, they've never. Well, that's how I could tell someone's not really used Excel well. They don't even because connect for that's basic if you're like learning to use Excel.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah, here's my hope. I felt like we graduated into a world that we were really lucky to be a part of. It was that early internet, things were exciting, things were popping, there was opportunity out there. And then I think about today. Obviously, if you're in Gen Z, if you're listening to this podcast right now, you're like, man, things are tough.
Jeremy Schifeling:The job market for entry level candidates sucks. Yeah, I wonder if it's another opportunity like that. If you can get really good at AI, get really good at all these tools, what can you build today that wouldn't have been possible twenty years ago when we were back at TFA? So I just wanna plant that seed for all those folks who are like, Man, Jeremy and Ron are really old, just know there might be another golden age right around the corner.
Ron Rapatalo:Or you know what, there's this analogy I wanna use that I got from one of my coaches. She mentioned to me in one of my coaching sessions being a sunflower planted in the concrete in the winter. Oh. Think of that analogy. Sunflower, concrete in the winter, yet still growing.
Ron Rapatalo:I think, I don't wanna, like, you and I, I think, have a lot of depth of watching this economy and how job seekers, Gen Zers, Gen Xers, Millennials, it's tough for everybody. Probably the one exception I see is if you've the CEO. But that's a different yeah,
Jeremy Schifeling:that's Because
Ron Rapatalo:you can kind of make or navigate it. That's what And I've seen, so I think what's really interesting about the job market is being able to just make something happen when things look dire. And so I I would like to think, just like in the grander scheme of when things have gone bad on earth, that things have come back up and survived and replanted and gotten better, is flipping one's mindset and saying, What can I do? Now let's be clear. Having a job with health benefits and all those things is a very real thing to start that foundation.
Ron Rapatalo:It is not easy to all of a sudden say, I was gonna be an entrepreneur. So I guess the question I have to ask you is how did you decide to start your own thing and why what you're doing now was the thing you decided on?
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. I think in a lot of ways, it dates back to TFA, right? Yeah. Like, here we were, a bunch of punk kids. We didn't have that much money or that many resources.
Jeremy Schifeling:Want to say for the record, I think my first salary at TFA was $26,000 a year. I thought I was doing pretty darn good. And the reality is we still got to make our little dent in the universe, right? Here we were, I remember there was the New York Times headline, new graduates line up to teach the poor through TFA. That year was the biggest recruiting class we ever had, and we made that happen through sheer willpower, through sheer ingenuity.
Jeremy Schifeling:And I was like, if TFA can do that, if we can out recruit Goldman and McKinsey and Google, then imagine what I could do on my own if I had these same tools. And so even though it took me probably a decade from there to actually launch my own thing, it planted that seed.
Ron Rapatalo:I think there's a lot of us that have ended up as social entrepreneurs because of our time at Teach For America, whether on staff, being alum and on staff or alums. It's pretty uncanny to see, like, the effect of folks who would be involved in educational equity in some way, shape, or form would come out of, like, the experience of either working at Teach For America or doing the core, or both. It's fascinating, fascinating case study.
Jeremy Schifeling:Absolutely. I mean, do think, going back to our very first point of discussion, there is something in the psychological makeup of someone who goes against the flow, who makes an explicit decision to do something that probably people in their family or their town may have questions about that says, hey, this person's willing to take a stand for what they believe in.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. So tell me a little bit about the business that you have, Jeremy, and how you support it sounds like you focus particularly on Gen Z candidates, but it might be broader.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah, and I want to be really clear. Everything I'm about to tell you is ten years of mistakes after mistakes. Don't want anyone to be like, Oh man, Jeremy just started a business, it was just great. Because it's never that way. I don't know anyone who's had that experience.
Jeremy Schifeling:But basically, from a bunch of false starts where I was like, I'm gonna run a career coaching service for brand new first generation grads and help them break into the tech sector. And I realized the market and the product and everything were completely off. I ultimately ended up becoming essentially a motivational speaker, for lack of a better term, for, both college students, MBAs, career coaches, helping them understand how to use all these tools of the trade, whether it's LinkedIn, AI, pivot tables, whatever it takes. How do you stand out in a job market that sucks? That's my job.
Ron Rapatalo:That totally goes back to when you were working in Bed Stuy, that you were the website and blogger. And then you've been in and around these tools and grown up with them, learned them deeply, that you realized that that was your superpower, that you could really teach people how to leverage these things that I think a lot of times in the marketplace don't get leveraged well.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah, because here's the funny thing. I hated teaching my kids how to read. I hated teaching my students how to do math. That was boring to me. But the one thing that got me passionate was like, let me show you the tools that will give you immense power.
Jeremy Schifeling:And that same passion for like, I wanna pull back the veil that hides the truth from job seekers and students. That's what's driving me today.
Ron Rapatalo:I imagine your teaching approach has changed fundamentally since you were teaching in the classroom to kids. Tell me about your teaching mindset and approach today.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I think that in some ways, I am still learning based on all the mistakes I made in Bed Stuy as a teacher. I came in wanting to be really dogmatic, like, okay, everybody, this is Mr. Schifeling's way to learn, everything else is out the window. And now people will say, Jeremy, that was an awesome workshop, not because of LinkedIn or AI, but because I turned everything into a little bit of a magic show.
Jeremy Schifeling:You know what I mean? I'm calling up volunteers, We're doing stuff in real time. There might be some drama on the stage, who knows? But the bottom line is I realized you can't just assume that your audience is gonna come along with you. You gotta actually lead them.
Jeremy Schifeling:You gotta light that fire.
Ron Rapatalo:There's such a fundamental difference to the way you talk about these tools versus when you're teaching in the classroom that I think to have your passion lit, like the passion you thought was initially lit by teaching in a classroom, to teaching job seekers these tools and learning about these tools around twenty years ago. When you think full circle about that, I mean, obviously, I'm sure you're like, was on your bingo card, but what would Jeremy today tell that younger Jeremy in the classroom?
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. I think going back to what we talked about, having the permission to fail, because when you're an A student, it's really hard to get a A minus, let alone an F. And then also permission to try new things. I just got off a call with the University of Richmond, I was talking with these students and they said, well, I'm a geography major, and I don't see a lot of geography jobs. And I said, who says you have to do geography just because that's your major?
Jeremy Schifeling:You've got skills with data analysis, you've got skills with communication, you've got skills with research. Those are the core things that are gonna make you awesome in the world, not being an expert in geography. And so I just want people to feel that sense of, there really is a huge amount of opportunity that goes beyond the usual suspects.
Ron Rapatalo:That's so inspiring to hear. So let's talk about the current job market and what trends you're seeing and how you are supporting job seekers.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah, and I would love to hear from your side as well, Ron, because you're probably seeing it even more importantly from the employers themselves.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, have a lot to say there. I have to be careful about how I
Jeremy Schifeling:frame Let's compare notes for the benefit of your audience.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, let's do that, because for lack of it, we have two career experts that are on this damn podcast and we should spend the rest of our time talking about what do we see in the market and how are we supporting people.
Jeremy Schifeling:I will give you the job seeker and coach perspective and then I want you to share what you're hearing from employers. So from the job seekers and coaches, they feel like the market has stalled out. They say, I know that people are not necessarily being laid off left and right. Obviously, are some very big exceptions to that, Amazon, Block, etcetera, but there's not a lot of movement. And because there's not a lot of movement, it's not freeing up spots, musical chair style for that next generation.
Jeremy Schifeling:So if you got a job today, you're okay, but if you don't have a job yet or you want a job, you just don't feel like the opportunity is there. That's the number one thing that I'm hearing from both coaches and student job seekers.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, I think when I
Jeremy Schifeling:think How does that square with what you're saying, So
Ron Rapatalo:some of this, it's like turning the globe and kind of seeing the perspective based on how you're seeing the globe. So giving that perspective, I think the truth within all of that, one truth, another truth alongside it is employers are seeing the amount of people that are applying for jobs when there is opportunity and going, Oh my God, what do we do with all these candidates? How do we, and many sectors have, surprise surprise, in this economy, shaved down their talent acquisition teams. I see it from the firm that I work at, where we have roles, especially when they're remote. You can get 1,000 people apply in three days.
Ron Rapatalo:Wow. Right? And so that turns into the volume of people that are looking, and these are, like there's just more people that are swimming in the job market than I've ever seen, particularly in social impact, that don't have a job, right? And then if you also include people that are looking for the next thing, you know, the concept that the Wall Street Journal like the term job hugging, right? Which sounds a little bit like quiet quitting.
Ron Rapatalo:I mean, it's a derivative if you ask me, right? Where there's nothing better for me out there and I have to hold onto this job, and I'm just gonna do good enough, right? And I think that's also part of the market too, that I
Jeremy Schifeling:think
Ron Rapatalo:is affecting unemployed job seekers and coaches, because frankly, the money for people to spend on those services is much less than it has been, right? And people's willingness to invest, you hear all the things like people dipping into a four zero three or four zero one ks more than ever, and same is going down, and everything's more expensive. The grocery store gas price is going up because of the war. And you know, it's just, there's a lot of pressure on people.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:And so the pressure is on both sides. It's like the demand of people looking for jobs is affecting, I think, some level. It is hard for employers to kind of sift through all of those people. And so what then then become This is one of the patterns of easy default behavior is, well, let's just look through a tranche of people. We come up our first 20 or 25, they're really good, or 50, whatever the number is.
Ron Rapatalo:We're just gonna stop looking at everyone else and then keep it moving. Because not everyone gets reviewed when you have that big a volume. Yeah. Because if you've viewed everybody, let's say you have 2,000 applications.
Jeremy Schifeling:Right?
Ron Rapatalo:You look at each resume, May let's be clear. You you've started that of how recruiters hire look at likely, you might be lucky if you get a ten second look.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:If you're being thorough, you try to look for a minute or two and you multiply by that many resumes, Holy crap.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. It's like it's becomes a lot. Resume Armageddon. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:That becomes a lot of decisions that people and it's also the ease of being able to apply for jobs these days.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. Yeah. And so
Ron Rapatalo:sometimes people are trying to, like you know, you add, you know, questions up front rather than just a resume. Yeah, people have to cover letter, but people have to like, can't cover. It's just, you have all this dance and stuff where I think the pressures that once didn't exist as much in the job market have now been so incredibly pronounced. I think it's adding behavior of people playing a little bit more job lottery than usual. They've been trying to get in front of people.
Ron Rapatalo:They can't because people are too busy on the TA side. How many times I've seen posts saying, I can't respond to messages. Though sometimes Because, they do, but let me be clear, it all depends who says the message and the quality Let of the me be clear, people still, even if they say that, might even check. And so it doesn't hurt to shoot your shot. It might have to be your spot that you use.
Ron Rapatalo:I think it requires you to be a little bit more creative. And I think, depend on the things that AI can't write you per se, might help you sort of like focus it, is good empathy and creativity to get in front of the right people. And that's demanding. I'm not saying that that is easy either. I know from my experience, I've had people approach me like that, and I've taken those combos, I'm sort of like, I could think of someone in particular.
Ron Rapatalo:Her name's Natalie Francis. Shout out to her. Like applied for a role that I was supporting at my search for, in consulting firm, and her messages was very exquisitely personally written. I was like, let me have a convo because she sounded really interesting. I was like, yeah, let me have a convo.
Jeremy Schifeling:Right. She didn't sound like chat GPT.
Ron Rapatalo:Or it wasn't just a form letter or it wasn't just, you know, it just, you know, and it's hard, right? I think this is what makes it hard for job seekers is that, you know, they're sort of shooting more in the dark more than ever because talent acquisition teams aren't responding. People on LinkedIn aren't responding as much. So it's like, and then sometimes in a lot of these processes, they don't find out they're not in the job hunt until months later when someone is chosen for an offer and then everyone is let know. I'm like, that kind of sucks.
Ron Rapatalo:Why would you let? So there's a lot of weird behavior, because I think sometimes it's not the employer, we don't want to say no to everybody because we never know. We might have to go back to be It's just, it's weird. There's stuff-
Jeremy Schifeling:Let me share two stats with your audience. Because hopefully, I want to crystallize everything we're talking about and something we can do about it. So the first stat, to your point around the resume Armageddon, is that the average American recruiter, according to SHRM, the big HR route organization, is now juggling 30 to 40 job descriptions at once because so many TA folks have been let go in all these layoffs. And then if you knew that math that you were talking about, 200 applications per job, 1,000 applications per job, they're buried. But this is the interesting thing.
Jeremy Schifeling:At the same time that they're buried, they're looking for shortcuts. They're looking for ways that they can figure out who's really good.
Ron Rapatalo:Of course.
Jeremy Schifeling:And so question for you, Ron. What do you think has been the historic advantage of getting a referral as a job applicant? Does it give you a 2x advantage, a 3x advantage over people who apply online? What's your guess?
Ron Rapatalo:At least 2X, I would guess it's higher, right? Because I just know how much the power of referrals and trust, especially the higher up you go in leadership level, matters a lot to people. Know this because I've run Gotham's It searches back in the day, matters a lot.
Jeremy Schifeling:You're in the room Hamilton style, yes. Now here's the question. So the answer is 10x historically. Like if you look at data from basically monster to Jobvite to all these different players, 10x, which is massive, right?
Ron Rapatalo:Is That
Jeremy Schifeling:number has changed dramatically in the last three years. What do you think? Is the number higher or lower now, Ron?
Ron Rapatalo:I think it's gotten lower.
Jeremy Schifeling:It's actually gotten higher. It's gotten higher. It's now a 20x advantage. Let that sink in out there in podcast, Leanne. A 2000x or 2000% advantage for getting a referral.
Jeremy Schifeling:What do think has driven that, Ron? What's behind that?
Ron Rapatalo:People wanting trusted people that
Jeremy Schifeling:they And why want can't we be using trust the the stuff we see on the screen anymore?
Ron Rapatalo:AI. AI. People knowing or the perception that people using AI. It's not even perception anymore. They are I mean, I do.
Ron Rapatalo:My god.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. Is this a hallucination? Is this a deep fake? Is this a North Korean agent on the interview line with me? We can't trust anything that's digital.
Jeremy Schifeling:The one thing we still trust is the people we know and that becomes even more important. If you are a job seeker out there, don't just rest on your laurels and say, hey, I've got good keywords, good cover letters. Go out there and walk the talk. Build that trust with someone on the inside.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, it is the common advice I've given since I've been a recruiter, since I've been a career coach, Jeremy. It's why I wrote my book, Leverage the People Love and Care About You Personally. Yes,
Jeremy Schifeling:I love that.
Ron Rapatalo:You can't just use someone as a reference in weight. References oftentimes at the end of a process, it's too late. If you can't even get in the door, and so some of it is like, and I'm sure you walk people through this, right? When I've coached people through this, it's like, you want exploratory conversations? There's all different kinds of like networking conversations.
Ron Rapatalo:And then everyone's an informational interview, right? Sometimes you're looking to get a referral from people in your network, right? Sometimes you're doing a cold outreach, right? But at the end of it all, getting a referral from trusted people in your network to have the right conversation with someone at the right time matters more than ever. And what I've seen, even that isn't enough to get the job because of the That's
Jeremy Schifeling:true, yeah. It's not a guarantee.
Ron Rapatalo:But it is now foundational. It was pre COVID for sure. You could be crazy talented on paper. And I think of like the usual Ed affiliations and networks, Broadalums, perfect example. Having a harder time finding jobs, why?
Jeremy Schifeling:Wow.
Ron Rapatalo:Because they're in the same swirl, right? Yeah. And it wasn't, you know, being a Broadal, like think about being a Teach For America alum, being a new Like there are certain Oh, that have connotations with quality because at the end of it all, we as humans are often looking for markers of quality and shortcuts to be able to like sift the pile to be able to get to conversation, right? It is imperfect at best to be clear, and at the same time, it doesn't surprise me from what you said. I thought it was gonna be less because people were just so inundated, they were just kind of like, Ah, but it makes sense that you would-
Jeremy Schifeling:I mean, costing me out really important, Ron. So you would think that as referrals become more and more important, more people would get them. But it's the opposite. Referrals have actually decreased in applicant pools because we now have a generation, Gen Z out there that started their professional lives in COVID, stuck in their rooms, not connecting with anyone. And so my sort of light the fire, come to Jesus moment for everyone in that youngest generation is I know you started in these terrible circumstances, but you gotta get out of the building.
Jeremy Schifeling:You gotta make those connections because that's what moves the needle.
Ron Rapatalo:It's so interesting. So in my alma mater, NYU, they have started initiatives to get undergrad students off of their phones. Yes. And so there's a whole university wide initiative to model that and shift behavior because look, I certainly, as a 50 year old, falls victim to it, members of my family, like everybody, it's such a con Right? Because it's easy if you're bored to just start wanting to do something that like gives you that quick dopamine fix.
Ron Rapatalo:And you and I are old enough to remember the generation and the times where you had to build the relationships because the digital tools didn't allow you to do it. Now fast forward, what do you and I have, right, is both end. We know how to brand ourselves and use the digital space to get out there. And we know how to have good one on one combos. Because I like my tagline that I tell people about social media all the time, especially ed space, which generally people, the K12 ed space, don't know how to use social media for branding.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? Branding and it's just not those are not native concepts for a lot of different reasons. The thing I tell them is I use social media as a way to drive one on one conversation outside of the box. Like I'm not the person who goes back and forth on comments with people. I actually don't like it, believe it or not.
Ron Rapatalo:This is gonna sound like weird, like, But Ron, you're always on fucking LinkedIn. Like what do you mean? I don't like commenting back. I'm like, I don't. I don't.
Ron Rapatalo:Some of it's because I would rather talk than like keyboard nah. I mean, I can, but I don't enjoy it. Right? I would rather have a substantive comp Like, Yeah, let's get on the phone, let's catch up. And I think that's something where the ease of our technology has made it easy to just go back and forth with people, and unfortunately what you lose with that is a lot of the nuance, the body language, it's just, there's ways that we communicate that outside of the written word, that if you don't get practicing it, it's easy to lose it.
Ron Rapatalo:And it's funny, on the side, one of the things I started doing is I'm an ambassador for the Foundation for Social Connection. And one of the things that I am evangelizing, because it's something I believe in, is like, why don't we build infrastructure in our local communities to build more social connection? Parks, events, library, all these things, right? And what the research is saying about when you don't have social connection, what that does to you. I mean, social connection is as important as a good diet.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes. And when we don't have those things, and in fact, some of that I think is related to people's ability or inability or lack of focus on building relationships. I'm not talking networking.
Jeremy Schifeling:That's It's social personal people creatures. Want Yeah. We need to be with other people.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. And I think that's a thing. Look, folks who will listen to this podcast say, Ron and Jeremy overengineered on that. Yes, that is true. And I think you and I, because of the nature of our work and our brands and our reputations, are incredibly empathetic to people who don't think like that.
Ron Rapatalo:Because a lot of it is a shifted mindset and showing them the tools and the systems that happens to do that. Frankly, some of the best branders on social media in life are introverts. I tell people all the time, it's like a ridiculously extroverted extrovert, Jeremy. You don't have to be like me to network. That's actually fucking not true.
Ron Rapatalo:I mean, I think I'm an exception to that world, being an extrovert, I don't think that's the dominant branding person on LinkedIn.
Jeremy Schifeling:Let me throw an idea for your listeners, because I think if anyone out there is like, man, I will never be like Ron. Ron is just like Mr. Charisma, I'm an introvert, or maybe I'm from another country, I'm not native to this American networking culture. Here's my advice. Please.
Jeremy Schifeling:I think everyone has had the experience of just geeking out with someone who's on the same wavelength. So think about me talking with that guy at TFA back in the day. My There's one nerd walking to another nerd and and we're just going back and forth. And I didn't think of that as a networking conversation. But in a way, was building one of my first professional connections around something I cared about.
Jeremy Schifeling:And so my challenge to everyone out there is no matter how introverted you are, no matter how anxiety provoking it feels to reach out to someone, don't reach out to do networking, whatever that means. Reach out to geek out. Find that person who's a member of your tribe, and then just totally go for it with passion, not as a transaction.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, I would add to that also, Jeremy, I think one of the things I've learned as I've coached people on the art of cultivating and building relationships is kind of the style of this podcast is as a host for me, Be curious, learn to ask good questions. Because everything I've ever read about really good conversation, if you bring that to the forefront, like look, I've said this on episodes a couple of times, right? I did very little research on you aside from knowing we worked together at Teach For America and knowing what you do. I could have looked up your bio and come up with some things. I did it, right?
Ron Rapatalo:Here's why, because I wanted to be surprised. Oh shit, he worked at Echo and Greene. Oh, this makes sense. Okay. You know what I'm saying?
Ron Rapatalo:Like, Oh, you worked at Bed Slime? I wonder what school. I'll ask you offline because I think I might know what the school is, if it's Charter, especially. But you know what I'm saying? That allows for a certain level of, oh wow, it builds rapport.
Ron Rapatalo:Because I think, look, the end of it all, it doesn't have to be like this, right? But geeking out, showing enthusiasm comes in different shapes and forms of people feel it, voice looking at you, whatever, when they're experiencing it, right? That is a very human social connection, right? And when we're able to do that, that's what charisma is. It makes me, it's so funny.
Ron Rapatalo:I got a book on charisma, The Charisma Myth, which I have not yet read like the thousand of books on my damn bookshelf and Amazon Kindle. But these things, as you and I are talking about, and again, you're infinitely learnable. Mindset, good coaching, community. Like there's a formula here. You got such incredible skills and so did I, working in a place like Teach For America and being around so many people that allowed us to be where we are twenty years later.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm super indebted to my admittedly brief eighteen months there, but eighteen months felt like five years when I worked there. It was a very concentrated amount of like passionate work and amazing people that to this day, I can still picture in my head, this is such like a nerd thing that I do. I have a really uncanny spatial memory. I can close my eyes and remember the 6th Floor where everyone receives it. My goodness.
Ron Rapatalo:Wow. And I do that when I go to restaurants and places I've been to enough. My wife hates this. She's like, Ron, I don't care we sat there three years ago. Why are you telling me this?
Ron Rapatalo:I'm like, You don't care. But I obviously do because you could see the level of I'm like, I have this weird spatial social memory.
Jeremy Schifeling:I
Ron Rapatalo:don't know why I always when I worked new leaders for seven years, I can remember where people seated by the rows still.
Jeremy Schifeling:Well, I was just thinking about this. TFA at that point, because we worked there maybe like ten years after its founding or something like that, was such a hotbed, not just of talent, but of opportunity.
Ron Rapatalo:For sure.
Jeremy Schifeling:You were growing so fast, new regions, new I wonder if that's a piece of advice for the next generation. It's like, again, I wasn't getting paid a lot of money. I suspect you were probably not getting rich either. But just to be there and make these connections and learn this stuff, in some ways that launched my entire career.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. I mean, think the underpinning of that job, yes, it was a time where if I take the list, the directory right outside of the 6th Floor door, It went from 60 people when I was there, eighteen months later it was 150 people, because the New York City regional office moved to 300350 West 36th Street. We expanded like two and a half floors during my time there. I mean, the space just skyrocketed, and it skyrocketed even more much after I left, where I heard something like, at one time, 315 West 36, they must have had like four or five floors in that building before they moved to 25 Broadway
Jeremy Schifeling:eventually. Let me give you a counter example. So much later in my career, went to work for Google.
Ron Rapatalo:Of course,
Jeremy Schifeling:Google's legendary, all the cool ball pits and the culture and blah blah. But this was Google probably, I don't know, twenty years after its founding. I don't know like graveyard, not in terms of resources. Obviously, it was still super rich, but it just had that early spark anymore. And so I wonder if someone is deciding where to go work in this crazy world of ours, maybe you've got to go to where the energy is.
Jeremy Schifeling:Even if it's not the best brand name or the biggest paycheck or whatever, maybe you've to follow that momentum. What do you think about that?
Ron Rapatalo:I think that makes sense. I think when you're working in somewhere where there's a lot of energy like that, if I think about, because if I think about this from a learning standpoint, sometimes when you're working somewhere there's that much energy and your role can constantly be changing, depending on your learning mindset and your stance, that could be disconcerting, where you need structure to figure things out, right?
Jeremy Schifeling:Right.
Ron Rapatalo:If you're one of those people who can put structure on top of very energetic entrepreneurial environments like that, I think you could succeed really well. The other side I think of like a very energetic environment, like it's not only a startup, but that's what I think of, is these days, depending on what the funding is of startups, if you're a nonprofit, that's harder these days for all the obvious reasons, right? Funding, federal government, philanthropy, etcetera. But even VC money, right, is that it You know, the volatility in the startup world and that energetic world, I think, is more volatile than it was years ago, right? And so somewhat, I think, it's funny how millennials, certain Gen Zs have gotten used to this idea of like job hopping, Because the infrastructure and, I'll say it out, loyalty of the employer to these folks has meant that, because let's be clear, employers organizations by demand, are not loyal to employees because that's just not their mandate, right, for a lot
Jeremy Schifeling:of reasons. Right, it's not unlike General Motors in 1956 No,
Ron Rapatalo:it just not, that's just not the case, right? It's a very, and in the social impact world, that could be disconcerting in mission based, passionate work, right? That I think younger folks to us have said, I'm gonna find the thing that's best for me next, and that means I have to leave in two years? I'm just gonna do it. Because in our generation, job is really frowned upon, Still is, still is.
Ron Rapatalo:How do I know it? I'm like, I like someone who stays in their place for five years. I'm like And you know, I don't I'm just gonna say it. Sometimes that comes from a place of privilege. Can't stay somewhere for five years.
Ron Rapatalo:And so we at times, I think, as we are looking at the job landscape, have to be a lot more understanding of people's trajectories and why they're leaving, and ask those questions, and actually create the damn fucking environment so the people wanna stay. Know what I'm saying? I think, here's the thing, in this environment where people are holding on a little bit longer, the moment things get better, watch the volatility. I don't know when that's gonna happen. I'm not Jim Kramer here.
Ron Rapatalo:I don't know. But like when that happens, I'm telling people we'll move because I think a lot more And look, the pressures on keeping culture in this economy, no matter what sector you are, is really hard. There's a lot more like quiet volatility happening inside of companies than people wanna share, because people wanna bad mouth or say things, right? But like, you and I hear these things. People are telling I hear it enough to like, I don't need the data in terms of a stat.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm hearing people's stories, which for me is as important as quantitative data.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. We
Ron Rapatalo:can't forget
Jeremy Schifeling:that. Well, before we wrap, know we've to wrap in a moment, I've got to ask you the ultimate question of our moment that brings together all these trends, which is Wendy wrote this piece last year about what's going on with Gen Z and social events.
Ron Rapatalo:I've read that. Yes, because our boy Christian is the head of public private partnerships there. So I read that. Was like, shit, you landed in Rising Generation? Like Oh, right.
Jeremy Schifeling:It's just putting this whole organization. Rising Generation. People should check it out. But here's the deal. When I thought about it, I was like, Wendy is right.
Jeremy Schifeling:I looked at the data. TFA applications, way down. Peace Corps applications, way down. AmeriCorps on life support. All these things that are suggesting there's just not that same traction there was when we were working at these organizations.
Jeremy Schifeling:So for my final question for you, Ron, what the heck is going on? Because I can't figure it out.
Ron Rapatalo:I could see that you're a podcast host because now the seats have been switched. Tables are turned. Yes. I love this. But this is a good two way conversation.
Ron Rapatalo:Know, I'm really wondering about some of that premise, right? Because I think some of this brass tax is about working, you get a stable job that pays you well. And I think when folks, this is also true, how hard it is to work in the social impact sector. It's always been hard. You're not doing this to get paid buco bucks.
Ron Rapatalo:And I wonder if the younger generation seeing all of this and all the stories and the things, and I don't think we've always done a good job of like how you can curate your career through all of this in the way, hey, there are more Jeremy's and Ron's evangelizing these things, think, because in the corporate America, have headhunters and people, and so people move around, like people know it's about the money and about your bonus. People get, here's my salary, here, what do you got? We don't have that same kind of language in social impact. And I think, you know, our younger generation, I don't think has seen why that would be a viable true line, considering it's like, That job is really effing hard. And we hear all these things, like, Why would I take that?
Ron Rapatalo:This is stable. I can get good pay. And then maybe I come back to that, But I'm just as passionate at you, but I don't think that's worth my value and my time. And for me, like, how do you Like, this is where, when you watch, you name some things that are like federally funded, I'm going somewhere here, where you start to chip away at the social good infrastructure. This is part of the shit that fucking happens, Jeremy.
Ron Rapatalo:You then get people saying, Well, fuck. It's a very nefarious way to destroy democracy.
Jeremy Schifeling:Let's just
Ron Rapatalo:call it out, man. No, we didn't have the money. We gotta fund other things. No, you wanna chip away. You You know what I'm saying?
Ron Rapatalo:And so you don't provide those opportunities for our young people to do those jobs.
Jeremy Schifeling:I totally agree with you. I think there's be way more funding for AmeriCorps, but it is true that if you ask the students themselves, I was talking to this junior at University of Michigan last year. She said, even as a psych major, she felt like for her generation, if she wasn't interning at McKinsey, Bain, or BCG that summer, she had failed. And I was like, what the heck? If the psych majors are thinking that way, let alone the business students, I feel like there's more than just government funding at work here.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, for sure. And it makes me wonder, what are the Baines and Mckinzees? Look, the largest of their marketing engines, their undergraduate college recruitment game. Because when I think about watching this in the '90s, you know what great ground game on getting students? The investment banks.
Ron Rapatalo:Right. The Goldman Sachs. Right. Your Morgan Stanley's, all the and, you know, and this also includes, you know, the the big management consulting company. They've got really good ground games and getting students excited.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. So I think some of this is also a marketing issue. Yeah. Because this is not just about Teacher America. This is like large that's larger than TFA.
Jeremy Schifeling:But we we had such a good ground game. And I don't wanna say like, oh, we were necessarily part of all that. But, like, we were there at a time when students were choosing TFA over McKinsey, over Goldman. And I feel like something has changed. But anyway, maybe I'll leave it to your listeners to decide for themselves.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, we just need to have follow-up number two. Think I'll to be a guest on your podcast, Jeremy Schifeling and Abo. But this is a good time to ask you, what's your Ronderings? What's the lesson or value you want to share with the audience?
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. I know this is going to sound really optimistic in the face of a pessimistic scenario that we're facing right now. Yeah. But I wanna push everyone to think about 2026, the way that we operated back in 2006, which is, yeah, there was crazy stuff going down. Yeah, nothing was perfect in the world, but we still went out there and we punched the world in the mouth.
Jeremy Schifeling:We figured out whatever tools we had at our disposal. So my challenge to everyone listening to this is in the face of all that stuff swirling around, what can you do yourself to build your own luck to make the world a better place?
Ron Rapatalo:I love that, building your own luck to make the world a better place. Because I think, you you hear all these like memes and quotes, you know, luck is made by like creating your own opportunity and like also relying on really amazing people and meeting new people to like have luck find you. I mean, that's been my experience. A lot of quote unquote luck that I've had is being a lot of right places at the right time. And you know, like you, it's like a tick.
Ron Rapatalo:I have to be meeting people. I am not having a good day if I haven't talked to at least a handful of people, right? Because that fills my soul.
Jeremy Schifeling:Absolutely. And in a lot
Ron Rapatalo:of ways, helps me make my luck. It's not like I'm doing it to make my luck, but it happens to be good for that.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's one of those classic truisms, is that if you want to have a great harvest tomorrow, you've got to plant the seeds today. You don't know which seeds are going to grow. You don't know how things are going to turn out. But you've got to take that first step.
Ron Rapatalo:Well, before we get going, what would you like to promote? How do people find you?
Jeremy Schifeling:Oh, I would just say, hey, if you want to stay in touch, I'm, of course, a LinkedIn nerd, just like Ron. So feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn. I know. But I would love, love, love to get the conversation going. And also, just to hear from everyone out there, what are you seeing when it comes to Gen Z, to social impact careers?
Jeremy Schifeling:Would love to go on to part two. So the invite is open.
Ron Rapatalo:Awesome. Well, Jeremy, thank you for your time. It was so good geeking out with you about your story, our commonalities, and most of all, talking career stuff. I think you and I have a lot of synergies that we could be riffing about together because I think the optimism you have is what stuck out to me. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Because it's I I'm sure you've thought I've heard some very painful stories from job candidates. It's hard, more so than ever. Like and I'm not saying that that wasn't hard ten like, during COVID or or fifteen years ago, but the amount and I have to particularly call out a lot of the amazing black women that I've talked to who are having a hell of a hard fucking time finding jobs. And that's where something just feels fundamentally different. I'm just like and so how do we not only bring more optimism in the space, but tools and hopefully like shining spotlights on things that could be fixed and like being able to curate spaces where the demand for like amazing people,
Jeremy Schifeling:particularly
Ron Rapatalo:all the Black women that are out there, can find the employment they so rightfully deserve. That for me is just something that's been top of mind.
Jeremy Schifeling:Yeah. No, I love that. I think one little bright spot I'll share is there was actually just a story on LinkedIn, which was that right now there's a huge resurgence in entrepreneurship in this country. Part of it is driven by the lousy job market. But who's leading the charge?
Jeremy Schifeling:Black women who are saying, hey, I'm going to build my own luck.
Ron Rapatalo:Which is not surprising, because let's be clear, they, black women in this country, saved us so many goddamn time, it's not even funny. And so there's something there because I've met some amazing black female leaders who have told me they're building things as a result. So but Jeremy, thank you for being on Ronderings, and I end in the words of one of my favorite sports heroes, Deion Sanders, we always come hot with guests like Jeremy Schifeling. Peace, y'all. That was Jeremy Schifeling, and there's a lot to sit with from that combo.
Ron Rapatalo:Stuck with me most is this idea of permission. Permission to change your mind, permission to pivot, permission to not have it all figured out at 18 or 28 or even 48 or even 50 like me. Jeremy also reminds us that in today's world where AI can do a lot of the average work, the real differentiator is you. Your curiosity, your relationship, your willingness to show up and geek out when people share your interests, and maybe most importantly, your ability to plant seeds without knowing which ones will grow. So as you leave this episode, here's the question.
Ron Rapatalo:Were you waiting for luck instead of creating it? If this conversation resonated, share it with someone navigating their next step. As always, peace.
Ron Rapatalo:Thank you for listening to today's Ronderings. I enjoyed hanging out with me and my guests, and I hope you leave with something worth chewing on. If it made you smile, think, or even roll your eyes in a good way, pass it along to someone else. I'm Ron Rapatalo, and until next time, keep brondering, keep laughing,
Ron Rapatalo:and keep becoming.
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