Episode 110
· 01:10:43
What's up? I'm Ron Rapatalo, and this is the Ronderings podcast. Around here, I sit down with guests for real, unpolished conversations
Ron Rapatalo:about the lessons and values that shaped them.
Ron Rapatalo:And I'll be right there with you, sharing my own take, laughing at myself when I need to,
Ron Rapatalo:and wondering out loud about this messy thing called life.
Ron Rapatalo:Glad you pulled up a chair. Let's get into it. Ronderings fam. Welcome back.
Ron Rapatalo:Today, I'm sitting down with someone whose story will bend your mind and stretch your heart, Dr. Kim MClear. Kim is a first generation American raised by Trinidad And Tobago immigrant parents who served decades in the US military. She grew up moving between Okinawa, Germany, and across The US, 18 cities by the time she could even vote. Through an early fascination with natural systems, mechanical puzzles, she wanted to serve twenty years in the coast guard, payment engineer, cybersecurity expert, and professor, and ultimately led one of the most strategic whistleblowing campaigns in military history. Kevin doesn't just challenge systems, she reimagines them, playing discipline, creativity, what she calls carnival style energy.
Ron Rapatalo:Today, we'll talk about systems, disruption, resilience, and small acts to shape the future. Let's dive in. Ronderings universe. We have another episode of Ronderings with my new friend, Dr. Kim MClear, is on the mic. And so this may be a little bit atypical for Ronderings, but I think it's becoming more the norm is that, Kim and I connected on LinkedIn early this year.
Ron Rapatalo:She reached out to me and was like, you have an interesting profile. We should chat. And if folks know me. I don't say no to a good conversation. And so we had a great conversation, and here we are to record.
Ron Rapatalo:How are doing today, Kim?
Dr. Kim MClear:Yeah. Doing doing pretty good. Just trying to, you know, stay warm, stay grounded.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes. Folks should know at the time of this recording, it is what I like to say in New York City language, brick. It is brick out here. No likey. You know, I'm a summer baby, but that's okay.
Ron Rapatalo:So we're all trying to stay warm, those of us on the Northeast. So, but, Kim, without further ado, what is your story?
Dr. Kim MClear:Yeah. Well, first, thanks for for having me on your your podcast and definitely enjoyed the conversation that we had. I think that was this past summer, if I'm not mistaken.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes. And
Dr. Kim MClear:yeah, it's an interesting question and I always kind of struggle a little bit answering. I mean, it probably sounds like a basic question, but from my perspective, like nothing is ever simple. So I kind of see it more of like, we all have these threads and depending on who you bump into, who you interact with, certain threads of our stories are going to be kind of cold. So, so kind of just echoing some of that metaphor. Some people might know me as someone who served in the US military.
Dr. Kim MClear:I retired from the US coast guard. I served over twenty years. And I just had a lot of different types of job specialties within the military, primarily an engineer. And I also did cybersecurity. Some people who I've encountered, they might know me as a whistleblower and someone who has spoken up against various forms of injustices from workplace discrimination, harassment, sexual assault, other folks who I've encountered and bumped into, they might see me more as an activist and someone who has helped with narrative change and building survivor led coalitions.
Dr. Kim MClear:But for me, all of this has been intertwined. The engineer in me, the the person who served in public service for over twenty years, someone who, you know, engineer type security problem solver, let's troubleshoot, like let's figure out what's going on, has always been rooted in dignity, human dignity, our humanity, and everyone is deserving to be in spaces and environments where they can thrive and be their full selves. So for me, as I have just kind of, you know, in my professional capacity or personal capacity, a lot of my story has been centered around, I want other people to thrive because everyone should. So what can I do to at least do some of my, you know, work or my small part to like remove barriers so that people could thrive? And so so for me, of it has been intertwined.
Dr. Kim MClear:So it's very difficult to encapsulate, you know, one story, I think everyone's product of many stories and many interactions and many moments. But I think it's about how we are guided, what's guiding us, what's fueling us. And and and hopefully, you know, what can we do to make sure that other people, you know, are also able to realize not just their potential, but it's really around our shared freedom, our our shared sense of humanity. So so it's been fascinating kind of seeing how people see me because it's kind of all tangled up. So, and then the other thread that I definitely want to mention about my story and just, know, a little bit more about who I am, is just how I was raised in my upbringing.
Dr. Kim MClear:First generation American, my family's from Trinidad And Tobago. Both parents are immigrants, and they also both served in the US military almost thirty years each. And I also come from a family of educators and teachers. And so that's very much also a part of who I am. And not shockingly, even though I did serve in the US military, and I am and was at the time an engineer, and I did cybersecurity, I also was a university professor.
Dr. Kim MClear:And I taught at the Wow. Postcard Service Academy. And prior to that, I also was an adjunct professor at two community colleges in the Baltimore DC area. So Okay. For me, you know, lots of threads.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes.
Dr. Kim MClear:But but ultimately, it's it's just about, you know, continuing the journey, you know, and I'm sure I'll have lots more adventures and stories, you know, in front of me.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. I mean, you're obviously the epitome, the multi hyphenated leader who practices sacred syncretism that I asked for on the Ronderings podcast. Right? So I wanna go back because you went into the the second thread of your story, right, which is always where I tend to go. It's the stuff that, like, when people have their bios and get interviewed in this very formal way that folks don't often ask, which is, like, the origin story stuff.
Ron Rapatalo:And so if you were, like, on X Men and we had to rewind and getting into your family history, right, are there particular stories, anecdotes that, like, would give a good picture into how this one, like, phrase, I wanna say, like, censoring human dignity makes would start to make sense for our listeners?
Dr. Kim MClear:Yeah. I think it's, it's human dignity and it's actually deeper than that. Personally, it's, it's about our collective dignity for all living systems. We don't have, or we shouldn't have any hierarchy over any other living system. And I think that what manifests in the workplace would manifest what we're seeing from an immigration perspective and othering perspective is very much rooted in this notion that there is hierarchy and supremacy.
Dr. Kim MClear:So some of us are experiencing that supremacy from a gender perspective, from a racialized perspective, but we're also experiencing the supremacy from a human perspective. And who are we as mere humans, right, to say that we should be able to dominate and have dominance over rivers, oceans, our forests, oils, right? And so all of that comes back circle and so what is now nourishing us and why do we have, you know, people talking about, you know, all the chemicals that are being put into their foods, or if you live in a particular zip code, you're more likely to get cancer. So all of these things are intertwined, very much in the same way that all of our stories are intertwined. And so for me, guides me is really the dignity for all living systems, is really at the heart of it.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. And so to go there, if we were to meet earlier Kim in your childhood, where do you where would you say you started learning that? Is there a particular moment with your family, with a Yeah. An adult, a mentor, someone like that's like, oh, you know what? Because it's like, I often like, when I watch like, I always go back to watching, like, comic book, you know, movies.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? It's like, it's that one moment that, like, guided you to, like, start to really, like, expand and and and think about, you know, this kind of work that you've been going into?
Dr. Kim MClear:Yeah. I mean, there's lots of moments. I definitely appreciate, like, the science fiction. So for me, if I didn't already like make it obvious, I'm a nerd I like science.
Ron Rapatalo:Nerds unite. Yes. Exactly. Exactly.
Dr. Kim MClear:And a lot of my like survivor led activism, it was essentially like putting together like all of us as like misfits and outcasts. It's like misfits and outcasts who have like special gifts, right? And there's just something really beautiful about that concept. For me growing up, several moments, I'll just give you just a couple of examples. One, there was always music in the house.
Dr. Kim MClear:So just always music in the house. We had different rituals, routines, you know, Sunday, you know, you're cooking, you're doing laundry, but there was always this sense of like very circular, you know, we're reflecting on the week, we're planning ahead for the upcoming week, we're kind of, you know, maintaining our homes, you know, checking in on each other while we're listening to music and being playful. So that definitely grounded me in just like this notion of like rituals and returning to things that are really important, but also returning to how we're going to plan for the future. And how are we going to care for the relationships that will guide us forward? So it's kind of like, you know, like, like becoming a good ancestor, you know, not about like any singular person.
Dr. Kim MClear:It's always like this collective approach. Another example that comes to mind is actually an injury. I still have the scar. I think it's on which hand is it? I think my left hand so long ago, must have been maybe, gosh, I don't even know, maybe six years old, but I have a scar on one of my fingers.
Dr. Kim MClear:And I've always been fascinated with just like storms, like cyclones, hurricanes. I've just been fascinated. I'm just like, wow. And as a kid, curious, which means I have a lot of scars, a lot of, like, I'm gonna build something and it's gonna break and fall off of it. So I very much was like, don't buy me toys, I'll build stuff.
Dr. Kim MClear:Wow. So I would just like, look out the window and I would just like be in awe of like, what are those, you know, what's happening outside? And I spent a part of my childhood in Okinawa, Japan. And so we had cyclones all the time. And you know, we had these big, you know, glass when, you know, everything is like extra, extra protected because of the intensity of the storms.
Dr. Kim MClear:And I was a kid, like, I don't even know, like, where my siblings were. I don't even remember what happened. All I remember is I was looking out the window. I was in awe of like, the trees were moving and dancing. I was like, look at that.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:And I opened, like, the big steel door. It was, like, super thick, double reinforced. And I opened the door and just I could just have, a pressure vacuum and that door slammed right back on my hand.
Ron Rapatalo:I was about to say I was like, as soon as you say I opened this door during a cyclone, was like, uh-oh, yeah. That's gonna be a real problem.
Dr. Kim MClear:Yeah, so I still have the scar. And I'm still in awe to this day about storms. Yeah. But but I've just always been fascinated with like, how small we are at the same time. And just how powerful nature is, but also that same power and strength is also within us.
Dr. Kim MClear:You know, like, like we have storms within us, like even not to get super into the weeds on this, even like our hearts, you know, like the emotion of our hearts is actually like a spiral twist motion that then untwist and releases. So for me, I've always just been fascinated with like these observations of like the living world, but yet it's also like a part of us for like breathing it, so we are also nature.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. Have storms and action potentials in our bodies all the time within our brain, right? I mean, it's just the very nature of like how things happen there, for sure.
Dr. Kim MClear:Exactly. And then the last short example is a non nature example. This is a super mechanical example. Okay. My dad is like a big like car nerd.
Dr. Kim MClear:And so growing up, like we spent a lot of time around cars and engines. And so I definitely got a lot of just like my troubleshooting kind of like analytical mindset from my dad as well. And so countless times as a child, you know, my dad would say, hey, you know, let's go check this car out or what have you. And so it was very like tactile and hands on. And we weren't just working on cars.
Dr. Kim MClear:We were also telling stories and he's telling me about his childhood. So it was this very just kind of like intergenerational experience, but it also was around like, like, we change this part on this part of the car, this is gonna impact this part of the system. And so all of these experiences, whether we're talking about natural systems or mechanical systems, is like the budding ingredients of like how I ended up, you know, pursuing a PhD in systems engineering, because I've been fascinated with like, all the systems and all of the like messy, quirky ways that systems, you know, can be used in ways that are life serving, but also can be manipulated in ways that are life
Ron Rapatalo:So You know, it's so funny. Like, this is where my random brain starts to, like, have pop culture infiltrated. As soon as you said Okinawa, I couldn't help but think of the incredible eighties, nineties, and then into, like, the two thousands, twenty twenties, you know, karate kid and karate kid part two in particular. And the storm that haps to karate kid part two, and Daniel san has to go back to Okinawa to see to hang out with mister Miyagi for the summer. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:I'm I'm like, oh, yeah. It did have there was a big storm during that movie. So my mind just, like, went there. I'm like, yes. It would have that happen there because I remember seeing karate kid part two, which then one of my favorite songs of speaking of music.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? I was gonna ask you this, like, I'm gonna let my random ADHD brain. If there was a song or an artist that on Sundays as your family spent time together that, like, would would typify your household? What was that song? I'm curious.
Ron Rapatalo:If you can pinpoint what song or artist, that maybe hurts you, right? But like I
Dr. Kim MClear:would say that the family song is it's Trinity to the Bone. It's It's it's a it's a song by David Rutter. And it's like, basically, like, you're from Trinidad. Like, everyone knows the the song, but it's about, like, having pride in your culture. And the song also talks about, like, the landscape landscape of Trinidad.
Dr. Kim MClear:It's very just, like, biologically diverse. Yes. It's miles, seven seven or eight miles from Venezuela.
Ron Rapatalo:It's Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:Like, the last apologize if you could hear that in
Ron Rapatalo:the background. Okay. Ronderings podcast always have noise. I've got the heat going on in the background. My kids make him coming out.
Ron Rapatalo:We're we're human here. This this is gonna be recorded as is, just so you And
Dr. Kim MClear:so and then also just, about Okinawa and and Japan, that also was my first exposure to martial arts. And although physically, maybe I'm not the most coordinated with martial arts, but from a philosophy perspective, that also was like ta da, like throw that in the frying pan along with the mechanical systems lens, the living systems lens. Now you introduce like this artistry tree around like, Hey, like, is this a science, is this a practice or is it an art? So for me as a kid, I mean, I nerd it out in libraries specifically I enjoyed reading philosophy books. Yes.
Dr. Kim MClear:You know, just kind of this intersection of like fluidity, motion, but you're thinking, but then you're also releasing, you're not thinking because there's times where you just improvise, which get back to the music piece, jazz and if.
Ron Rapatalo:Oh, yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:It's just like just the exploration of just being and not worrying about a label, a container, or a box. Like like, just be. You know? So
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. When I think when we had chatted, I think you had briefly mentioned your love of martial arts. And then my mind goes into, like, early two thousands, Ron Rapatalo, when I was weightlifting, and my homeboy and previous Ronderings guest, Chris Simamora, said, you should study martial arts. We're gonna go to a Jeet Kune Do class together. So I started studying Jeet Kune Do.
Ron Rapatalo:My mind was blown. And, of course, I'd be remiss not to mention, may you rest in peace, not only one of the greatest martial artists in living times, but certainly philosophers, the great Bruce Lee. Right? And when you mentioned, like, not being in a box, my mind instantly went into, like, be like water, and there's way and there's no way. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:It's so brilliant when you think about the way he talked about it philosophically, but how it hit in his heart. And I just remember reading the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and studying it and, you know, JKD principles. I'm like, this stuff makes so much sense because it pulled from all of these, quote, unquote, disparate arts, and it then became the beauty of Jeet Kune Do from my perspective when I studied this, like, you could pull for anything. We studied Wing Chun. We studied the screamer.
Ron Rapatalo:We studied Brazilian jiu jitsu. We studied, you know, Savant. We studied boxing, and it just we made it fluid. It was so fun. So yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:So I'm guessing did you travel a good deal because your parents were in the military? So where else were did you travel to growing up? I heard Okinawa. Where else did you spend time?
Dr. Kim MClear:Yeah. So I'm the youngest of my siblings. So so they went to more places before I was born. Okay. I started my schooling in Okinawa, Japan at my primary schooling, and then I finished high school in Germany.
Dr. Kim MClear:So kind of the bookends of my yeah. And then in the middle of that, spent a lot of time in California. So also Yeah. You know, shout out to the West Coast, but
Ron Rapatalo:How you know, this gets me I mean, it it's really funny as I am thinking about all the Ronderings guests that I've published and that I've interviewed thus far. This theme just started coming up yet again about how many of my guests, including me, have family in the military or have been in the military. Right? And especially around global travel and, like, living globally. How much I'm sure you've reflected on this.
Ron Rapatalo:How much would you say that experience of being global has allowed you to be able to, like, have the kind of nurturing for this systemic, like, mind and ability to problem solve really well?
Dr. Kim MClear:Yeah. A huge, huge, huge impact. I mean, I think, you know, reading books and travel are kind of in similar, you know, they're siblings of each other.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:You know, and I think any opportunity to just experience other ways of living.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:But then your own, you know, zip code can can only be a benefit. And so I was very privileged in that way growing up. My first memories, was I was born in The US, but I don't have any memories of it. My first memories was Okinawa. Wow.
Dr. Kim MClear:Starting preschool in first grade in Okinawa. I remember friends I had in Okinawa.
Ron Rapatalo:Wow.
Dr. Kim MClear:And and then, you know, kind of the bookend, graduating high school from Germany, you know, you're immersed in another country. Yeah. I don't have a clear recollection of this. And my parents told me that I used to speak a little bit of Japanese when I was a kid. Okay.
Dr. Kim MClear:Heard a little bit, but they told me I, you know, use the language more. And yeah, it just, I think it's just affords people who do, again, people who do have the privilege to be able to travel and live in different places. You realize I think two things simultaneously. You realize that the world is a pretty big place.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes.
Dr. Kim MClear:But then you also realize the world is actually a pretty small place as well. And even though I've lived in, I think I counted 18 different cities in my lifetime already.
Ron Rapatalo:Wow.
Dr. Kim MClear:Including living in, you know, Asian Europe, as I mentioned.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:You also still find a lot of similarities across our shared humanity.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes.
Dr. Kim MClear:So, you know, so like, yes, it's Maya Angelou, it's yes, we have these differences, but we sure do have a lot of things in common. I've been very, like I said, very privileged in that way. And and it also not just from a cross cultural perspective, but also from an economic perspective as well. I remember living in Germany and just being more curious about capitalism, socialism, you know, like there's different, everything can be different. So what a particular way of living, including the our institutions, our governments, economic systems, why should that be locked into particular way?
Dr. Kim MClear:So it absolutely sparked even more. I mean, I already was a curious kid, but when you can, you know, look out the window or go down the street or go to a different type of market or festival, you know, language, invite all of these very vibrant ways of just connecting with each other. And if you're not in spaces where there's other languages, whether it's spoken, unspoken, you know, it's tough because then the world can feel really small in a bad way, where it feels very limiting. And I think that has a direct impact on our ability to imagine different futures and imagine different possibilities. For a lot of people, It's really hard to imagine a different alternative that they've never even tasted, you know, if they'd never even tasted it, how would they know?
Dr. Kim MClear:And so I do think that it had a tremendous impact on me as well.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, I'm gonna get to that towards the latter part of our time together, right, because I sat in a webinar recently on using futurism to create organizational sustainability. And so I'm gonna ask you, like, a future prediction question later. So but I'm gonna but I'm gonna hold back because I don't wanna go too forward in, like, you know, the journey of Dr. Kim MClear. So let's spend some time in your coast guard experience because, you know, you know, I think it doesn't take a rocket science to say, well, both her parents were in the military. Of course.
Ron Rapatalo:Well, Kim would join the military and join the coast guard. So talk us a little about that experience, especially, like, tying that together with your whistleblowing experience, which I know you mentioned is a big part of how, you know, a number of people that know you see you.
Dr. Kim MClear:Yeah. Well, the first part, I actually didn't want to be in the military, because my parents did it.
Ron Rapatalo:More. So,
Dr. Kim MClear:I think I also personality wise, am very observational because I'm also the youngest. So I think that also plays into the calculations as well.
Ron Rapatalo:That's that's like youngest energy.
Dr. Kim MClear:Yeah. That's like, wait, older sibling got in trouble for that thing. When do you not see that thing?
Ron Rapatalo:Little bit. Little bit. Y'all make the mistakes so I have a smoother pathway. Right? It's like, you're so spoiled.
Ron Rapatalo:I was like, nah. I just was watching what y'all were doing to try not to do what y'all were doing that got, like, my parents battered at y'all. Come on now. I don't wanna get in with a belt or the chinellas. It's the beard.
Ron Rapatalo:So
Dr. Kim MClear:I I was interested in public service. My first love was actually art. And it still is.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes. Okay.
Dr. Kim MClear:And I when I was 17, actually, I was accepted to an art college. And I ended up pursuing engineering instead. One
Ron Rapatalo:would argue that engineering is just technical art. Right?
Dr. Kim MClear:Yes, that's how I approach it. If you can't imagine a solution, you can't engineer towards it. And so, yeah, so I just kind of got to a point where I said, you know, on the one hand, I appreciate public service, that's very much like a family ethos of just like a communal collective kind of mentality.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:But on the other hand, in my observational mindset, I saw some things even as a child within the US military that I didn't like. And I can see a lot of the isms in that institution. So for me, I made a decision I said, well, if I am going to, to be in public service, and if I am going to be in the military, I actually want to just like totally get out of my comfort zone. So I already was familiar with the Air Force. And I said, Who's the Coast Guard?
Dr. Kim MClear:What are they doing? And to tell you how far out of my comfort zone it was, I don't even really like the water. I'm not even really a fan of boats.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm a strong
Dr. Kim MClear:swimmer. So if you're drowning, it will not be me jumping in the water. Will call 911. I'll like throw the light free.
Ron Rapatalo:Oh my god.
Dr. Kim MClear:But I am not you have to know your limits. You know, you just
Ron Rapatalo:This would be like if you were, you know, with Charles Xavier, like the water thing is not like him, like Aquaman, Aquaman. Don't hang out with them. Like, they my friends. Yeah. You know.
Dr. Kim MClear:Yeah. But just like I said, it was more of like the curiosity side of me. Yeah. And I've always just craved experiencing different things. So why experience something that I already had some familiarity with?
Dr. Kim MClear:And so I thought, well, no one in my family served in any military branch close to the water and that way. So I thought, well, the coast guard is as far away from that is what I'm used to or what I've been accustomed to.
Ron Rapatalo:Right.
Dr. Kim MClear:I thought, well, you know, just try it out for a few years and, you know, if you don't like it, move on to something else. And and and I had some pretty cool jobs in the coast guard. And for all of my career, I served over twenty years and something kind of interesting happened. Normally in the military, you go where you're assigned and you can request jobs, but for the most part, you just go where they tell you. I actually got all of my entire career, I always got my number one pick.
Dr. Kim MClear:So
Ron Rapatalo:I got
Dr. Kim MClear:my number one pick. And I never picked a job that required me to be at sea.
Ron Rapatalo:Well, you didn't want to be put in that situation after drowning. Come on now. Shoot. Why would you put yourself? It
Dr. Kim MClear:was too far out of my comfort zone. I was like, I support the sea from the shore. And that's that's what I did. And so in terms of the whistleblowing, it was actually kind of a similar thing, where obviously, like, no one desires to be a whistleblower. That's not something that like a childhood dream, like, I want to be a whistleblower.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes.
Dr. Kim MClear:You know, I wouldn't wish that experience on on anyone. And, you know, it's, you know, very dangerous, very daunting. It can be extremely isolating. And so when I made this decision to be a whistleblower, I said, Okay, if I'm going to do this, I got to put my own, you know, bedazzling sprinkle on everything. It can't just be like, speak up and it just follows the same statistical outcome of you get retaliated against and, you know, dun dun dun, you know, doing I said, if I'm going to do this, we got to bring in some spice, some flavor, some rhythm.
Dr. Kim MClear:So again, my family's from Trinidad. So I said, I am gonna do this, I said, I literally need to reimagine whistleblowing. And that's what I did. So for me, I was like, I'm still gonna do my job, which is being an officer in a coast guard. But I'm gonna be my full self.
Dr. Kim MClear:Black, female, queer, truth and competent.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes,
Dr. Kim MClear:I'm not going to shrink in any space, period. So for me, I said, well, whistleblowing can't be any different. So what I realized for myself is I said, if I am going to do this, I want to embody more of a collective approach to it. I don't believe in this kind of like, very like, hero journey, that can be very Western and yes, to me, like the single hero versus the big, you know, takes on the big corporate whatever. I was never into that.
Dr. Kim MClear:For me, it's like, we don't need to be murderers. It should be like, we just each need to do our small part and collect our small parts should right address the big issues, ideally. And so for me, I said, well, being a whistleblower, and I started thinking about it, said, well, a whistle is an instrument too. We use whistles in Trinidad and Carnival, and you have throughout various diasporas. So I said, Okay, well let me mix it up.
Dr. Kim MClear:I said and there's a famous quote that goes something to the effect of like no one can whistle a symphony needs an entire orchestra. So I said, Okay, where's, where's my rhythm section? Where's my brass section. And I assembled right, misfits, nerds. But I assembled the orchestra.
Dr. Kim MClear:And that was the survivor led coalition. And it was whistleblowing, but it was whistleblowing with rhythm and flavor and dignity and joy, because I wasn't gonna let them rain on my parade, right? That's, I didn't like that version.
Ron Rapatalo:Was. Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:Well, asshole like, wait, you're speaking to the press? Like, how are you doing that? And you're on active duty. How are you doing that? And how do you solve a job?
Dr. Kim MClear:How are you doing that? I just did everything at once because I never believed that I should have to compromise or shrink. That just to me just didn't make any sense. And so I thought if I can reimagine whistleblowing and show other people those other models of whistleblowing, then maybe that can be a little bit contagious, just like going to a dance club. Who wants to be the only one on the dance floor?
Dr. Kim MClear:Nobody. But if you see someone else out there doing their thing and having fun, the more likely other people wanna join in.
Ron Rapatalo:There's something powerful about seeing a circle on the dance floor. It makes even folks who don't enjoy dancing, it's like they get in the middle of the circle. When you create the soul train line,
Dr. Kim MClear:they're
Ron Rapatalo:like, is there anything more infectious to the soul train line? Come on now. And you can dance everywhere you want. It don't matter if they're soco on or reggae or salsa, Menager, house or hip hop or art, like go, go shake your ass the way
Dr. Kim MClear:you That's what I told people. Whatever your genre is, just bring it. It all works. And so that's, that's what I did. And that's how I was able to do all these things while not getting burnt out.
Dr. Kim MClear:Right? Because it was a lot of work, right? And so, so yeah, just want to just kind of like add, like add those points is all of these threads have always been intertwined. The artist in me, the person who loved reading philosophy books when I was eight, is the same person in my 30s who's then doing the whistleblowing, who's then thinking about like, why are these things happening? And why is it happening to so many people?
Dr. Kim MClear:But we don't have to accept that. Like we don't literally have to accept that. Yeah, I just, like I said, life is short and I don't really have the patience to like have folks like ran on my parade. I don't have time for it. I was like, it's gonna like do these things.
Dr. Kim MClear:Like, let's, you know what I mean? Like, let's jazz it up.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. I mean, it reminds me like in so many different superhero movies. Right? It was, like, when the Avengers come together, they're fighting Thanos. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:It's like Thanos is the all he's all powerful, but each of the Avengers had their own individual gifts that was able to defeat Thanos because singularly, couldn't. But together and so, like, it makes sense in some of the more modern movies and archetypes of, like, defeating these isms and these structures of oppression. Right? Because, you know, for me, it's always about, like, if you have more than one person, you're sort of, like, leveraging people's strengths. And two, you can spread out the risk also.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? Which I think for me was the energy that I was hearing is, like, when you put it on one sole person inside of these systems that are so structured and regimented, right, it whistleblowing for me in the traditional sense, there's no it only happens when you hear of the system, like, changing. Right? It's very quiet and happens behind the scenes like That's the whistle. So you wanna fill out the HR form.
Ron Rapatalo:And that, I imagine, energetically by design Yeah. Is meant for these things not to really get big. I don't know if you've been if you watched, because right now, the popular thing to watch at the time of this recording is the 50¢ documentary on Diddy.
Dr. Kim MClear:I haven't seen it yet.
Ron Rapatalo:Who came? I'm like, boy, if you and I may need to just, like, talk about that. It's like, what will whistleblowing have looked like at bad boy? Yeah. Because people tried, kinda, but there's some like, if if Diddy was the like, his energy and personality is very much how a lot of the structures are in the coast guard or other places.
Ron Rapatalo:Like, well, how do you, quote, unquote, defeat that? Yeah. Yeah. For in my mind.
Dr. Kim MClear:I've seen the documentary, but for me, it it was more about not like a whistle and I play sports grown up too, but like, not like a whistle, like a referee who's off right there on the sidelines, right? Red card whistle violation, whatever. That wasn't my style of whistleblowing. And I think that is more of like the one you just described, like going to HR form. My style of whistleblowing was like, no, we out here like carnival.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:That's marching, you know, not every marching, let me clarify also, I'm a graduate of FAMU, marching with-
Ron Rapatalo:Our word, okay.
Dr. Kim MClear:So let me just put that disclaimer. I mean, all of our two bands, but there's certain style and charisma around that type of whistle, you know, in the, you know, Brazil's Carnival, Trinidad's Carnival, that's a different tempo and cadence and style that is intentionally, like vibrant.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah,
Dr. Kim MClear:those are things happening in the shadows. That is intentionally participatory. It is welcoming, it is dynamic, it has texture, it has flavor. And that was a style of whistleblowing that I that I really modeled my work after. And, you know, if your listeners are maybe not familiar with kind of like, well, what happened at the end of this interesting experiment of whistleblowing?
Dr. Kim MClear:And then Bruce and I and this just to clarify, this happened over an arc of ten years.
Ron Rapatalo:Right.
Dr. Kim MClear:I served for 2050% of my career, the last ten years, I was doing this carnival with some blowing Right? Speaking to the press openly. And so I was doing some of the work was underground because that's needed, but some of it intentionally was out in the open because sometimes when you do things out in the open, that is also a form of safety and protection. Yes. And so I mobilized this network of thousands of people across The US, and it ended up evolving into even bringing in artists from out of the country as well.
Dr. Kim MClear:People that said like, I want to join in, how can I help? Had this weird skill or this weird craft. I want to help. What can I
Ron Rapatalo:do? Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:So and in terms of the actual like what was exposed, it exposed the largest cover up of rape in military history. The Coast Guard had concealed forty years of rape cases that was exposed. CNN did an expose. I spoke on CNN Jeez. Late twenty twenty three.
Dr. Kim MClear:CNN actually was nominated for an Emmy for their investigative journalism into that. All of the Wow. The narrative building work that I did to support CNN resulted in that exposure. It also resulted in new laws being passed, congressional laws being passed, which in this United States Of America is very difficult to do in a very polarized congress being passed, so to get multiple bills passed on how we can improve, you know, the working environments of federal and military employees. And also there were several, not one, not two, but probably closer to four or five inspector general reports came back conclusively showing that there was evidence of systemic workplace discrimination, not just at the Postgres Academy, but also across the fleet from officers, federal civilians, enlisted.
Dr. Kim MClear:So the whole kind of gamut, you know, is there, which again, encouraged and inspired other people, right? To say, you know what, maybe I should say something about what happened to me. And that is what was created was removing those barriers, those old institutional barriers that said, don't speak up, just be a good soldier, be a good sailor, be a good coastie, Don't rock the boat literally. So, yeah, so that is how I approached it, but it had real results. It wasn't, you know, just we were dancing, had a good time.
Dr. Kim MClear:Like this particular approach had massively positive results. And at a particular time in US history, all of this that was exposed had the attention of the House of It had the full attention of the US Senate. It had the full attention of the Inspector General. It had the of full CNN, multi part series, ABC, CBS, all of you know, New York Times, Washington Post, so at no other time in history really for a federal agency that you have this concentration of attention and resources to say, we have to fix what's going on.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:And that's what this style of activism and movement building was really about is showing people that there's other ways and I didn't compromise who I am, I never will. You know, I didn't need to shrink. I did quite the opposite. And one little extra little tidbit, I'll just say, as a bit of humor and nerdiness. Please.
Dr. Kim MClear:Growing up, I also was heavily influenced. Growing up, I watched a lot of like murder mystery shows.
Ron Rapatalo:Okay, which one?
Dr. Kim MClear:Oh, like cheat, the cheesy ones. Murder, She Wrote, Maxwell desaire. Yeah. And but my all time favorite was Columbo, of course.
Ron Rapatalo:I I was like, come on.
Dr. Kim MClear:So there were times
Ron Rapatalo:Like, where I cash can can I ask one more question?
Dr. Kim MClear:Exactly. So there's times when I've been describing this as, very vibrant. It's carnival, right? But, but I also had my Columbo style, right? So if someone asked me a certain question, I would say, I don't know what you mean.
Dr. Kim MClear:I'm a professor. I don't. So so that's part of the martial arts style, right?
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:It's not necessarily always showing everybody what you know or what you have. It's about timing. It's about dignity and knowing when is the right time to do or say certain stuff. And sometimes silence was actually the best thing to do at certain times, because sometimes it was really important to let other people speak, because sometimes when other people spoke, they actually revealed themselves. And then I just pointed investigators to those situations, right?
Dr. Kim MClear:So not everything is about volume. I would say none of it's about volume. It's really about dignity and centering on liberation, centering on justice. And there's so much creativity that we can do because we are innately creative people.
Ron Rapatalo:And I think it's
Dr. Kim MClear:systems of dominance and oppression that lie to us and strip us away from our ingenuity where we just become these, like, shells and robots. So it's like, no. Like, let's put some flavor in it.
Ron Rapatalo:You know what this made me think of, Kim, to take the martial arts thread again into this conversation is how much of your whistleblowing style is about disrupting the rhythm of the system. Right? And there are different ways to disrupt rhythm. If I think about when I used to spar. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Yes. Disrupting rhythm is about being able to read the cadence of the person you're sparring, which takes sometimes, you know, like, think of, like, Brazilian jiu jitsu people come at you hard, then they slow down and, like, they're playing the guard game. Right? Or someone is, like, someone is playing really hard and they're trying to, like, get you disoriented so you don't know what's coming at them, which could be very disconcerting depending on your own fighting style. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:But every rhythm and understanding of how you pace it matters to be able to understand the long game and the actual setup of, like, where you're looking to go. Right? Because situations are dynamic as we know. Right? And as you said, sometimes being really loud matters.
Ron Rapatalo:Sometimes having some of your team come in, you know, matters and being a little silent. Like, all of these things at your disposal and being very multifaceted matters because when you're disrupting something that's so large and so it just requires a a an understanding of the long game. It's not I think we have this mythology of, like, the single force or the single thing breaks everything. It's actually, you know, like, lots of small things. And when you talked about, like, all this attention that happened, I imagine that's what people see.
Ron Rapatalo:They don't see the ten year arc and all this, like and that's what interests me on this pod. It's like all the little things that then happened that led up to, like, oh, it's all the exposure on CNN and the multi, like, you know, episode documentary and the Emmy that they got not that they won and then all the policies they changed in common. People see that, but they don't for me, it's like that's the end of the movie. It's like when I watched a few good men, it's like the end of a few good men. But, like, it's really interesting about few good men is like, I were to rewind back, it's like, what did colonel Jessup get to be?
Ron Rapatalo:Why was he allowed to do what he did in that movies? I think about, like, it's few good men is one of those movies I probably watched, I don't know, 700 times. It always fucking shows up on TNT or some channel. Like, oh, I gotta watch it. Get him.
Ron Rapatalo:It's just like, I want the truth. I'm like, shit. I'm but wait a second. He's not the enemy here, Sole. It was the system that needs to be examined because another colonel Jessup was gonna pop into place anyway.
Ron Rapatalo:It saved him. You know?
Dr. Kim MClear:But It's it's exactly right. I'm just gonna plug in my my phone for a quick
Ron Rapatalo:Yep. Yep. Yep.
Dr. Kim MClear:I don't lose you.
Ron Rapatalo:Now you're still here?
Dr. Kim MClear:Recharged. I was getting the low battery alert. But yeah, I used to tell folks all the time, it's like, I'm And this was like verbatim what I would tell people. I am doing my small part to break the cycle. There's cycles that happen, you know, whether you're talking about abusive relationships, abusive systems, abusive organizations, there are cycles that happen, right?
Dr. Kim MClear:It's passed down, it's learned, it's like, I wanna die, right? And it is a rhythm. It is absolutely a rhythm. And so how do you disrupt that rhythm? You know, if I were talking about sports, or martial arts, right?
Dr. Kim MClear:When you catch someone who's flat footed, there's advantages of that, right? So what can you do to get people flat footed? Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Oh, absolutely. Is that
Dr. Kim MClear:part of the creativity, you know? And and some and there's so many times I would go into spaces and, you know, you had to mix it up because sometimes people would expect, oh, there's Kim, she's gonna she's gonna say something. But they had no idea, like all of the prep work that was done, it was actually gonna be someone else that said something that day. And they know the look on their faces is priceless. So yeah, it's very much about flow improv.
Dr. Kim MClear:It is also about discipline, right? It's not about the impulsive reactionary, right? It's about understanding the line game. Yeah. And it's also about understanding your own dignity so that in the process, you don't become the thing that you're right, that you're saying is not right.
Dr. Kim MClear:And I've also have seen that many times where we resort big, we resort to these tactics and strategies. And then time goes on. It's like, can't even differentiate.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:Like y'all y'all looking real similar now. Right. And so for me, it also was a constant daily grounding of like, this is not sport. This is this is not a scoreboard, right? We're talking about lives on the line.
Dr. Kim MClear:We're talking about people who have thought about suicide, have attempted suicide, have completed suicide, right? Like we're talking about our democracy, we're talking about these big critical issues. And so I never took it lightly, but I knew that even being playful was also very strategic and very intentional as well. And so I just also just wanted to to add those layers as well is that part of the the long game is also the the daily grounding and and that is like discipline based. Yes.
Dr. Kim MClear:Otherwise, you know, you start, you know, bragging about stuff or saying stuff, you know, and just as a quick point, part of the reason I think why I had a lot of longevity is I was very disciplined in my tactics. And it's kind of like, you know, people look at like Dr. King's tactics and non violent in a movement. I never call people names, never. And it may cross my mind privately, but I never called people names, meaning I was always disciplined about describing the behaviors.
Dr. Kim MClear:I'm describing the behaviors of what's happening. Right? I'm not, you know, I'm not calling so and so MFer blah blah blah. Why? That's stupid.
Dr. Kim MClear:Like, I'm describing a phenomena, I'm describing behaviors, and these behaviors have cycles and patterns and rhythms that we need to disrupt. We need to identify it, we need to name it, and we need to remove it. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:That's I mean, this is making me think of, like, watching the Diddy dot there are things I just did not know. I'm like, oh, this makes sense. It does not excuse his behavior, to be clear. But there's just I was like, oh, this makes sense. Oh, and then I'm thinking I mean, as a native New Yorker who lives in Jersey City, so I could not vote for him, but run for the the mayor of New York City is, I would say, I don't know if you and he or any in his anyone in his campaign ever talked, but, like, how he ran his campaign sounds very similar to, like, your whistleblowing approach at the Coast Guard.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? There was just this, like, multidimensional, multi artistic because he was, you know, at, like, concerts. Was going and hanging out at night. He was doing a
Dr. Kim MClear:little bit of
Ron Rapatalo:he was at like, and it's just like, that's what mayors should, like, mayoral Yeah. What mayor of Canada Day was doing those things that I could think of modern history like none. Yeah. And just and surprise, surprise, look at his background. Look at the way he grew up.
Ron Rapatalo:Who's the other person that I'm thinking of them is like, look at the way he grew up that, like, hit and became president 2000. Like, there's something about, like, this unique background certainly that you have that Mamdani, Obama and other people that have been like that allows you to have this approach because it just you're just being who you are. You're not shrinking to be fitting what the moment is. These tactics don't work, I would argue, unless it's something you embody is my point.
Dr. Kim MClear:Yeah, I definitely agree. And I think since you mentioned about New York, I well, I think that longevity, sometimes it's not worth our energy to invest so much in like, the other meaning, let's invest our energy on futures that are rooted in dignity and liberation. So if all someone knew of me to use a coast guard framing, all someone knew of me of like, oh my god, you're a whistleblower. You just you hate the coast guard. Why do you hate the coast guard so much?
Dr. Kim MClear:If that's all they knew of me, that's the end of that. There's there's no longevity to that. What people realized what people realize is, oh, snap, she's a professor and she was really, you know, doing a great job there. Oh, snap, she's doing cybersecurity at this new agency and she's doing an amazing job. So they always saw a side of me that was always professional because I enjoyed my job.
Dr. Kim MClear:So, so the whistleblowing didn't take away from my job. My whistleblowing actually further enhanced people's understanding of how committed I was to my job, because I wanted everyone to thrive and be nerdy and do their jobs really well. How can they do that when they're being harassed or sexually assaulted?
Ron Rapatalo:Bingo.
Dr. Kim MClear:So, so I had to break through those barriers to say, I'm trying to build this world where you're a nerd and you're a nerd and you're a nerd, and we're all doing nerdy stuff in our uniforms, giving back to the community. Doesn't that sound beautiful? So in order that future, we can't have this other stuff, but I'm not, I didn't place all of my energy, you know, from sun up to sundown. I'm naming the bad, I'm naming the bad, I'm naming the bad because now the framing is, well, Kim just hates that.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:So what people really needed to understand and they did, is part of the longevity is, Kim actually really cared about building the coast guard to a place where it already said it was on paper and then some, right? So I took my oath to the constitution very seriously. That's why when there are violations of it, it was my duty to say something about it. So so that to me is is is the difference. And I and I see a lot of that in the Mamdani campaign.
Dr. Kim MClear:Yes. Some people spoke, and I won't even say the name. It's pointless. Some people spent a lot of time talking about one person. Why is one person so bad?
Dr. Kim MClear:Instead of just painting the picture and building, build a different future.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes.
Dr. Kim MClear:Paint a different picture, invite people in to taste what a different future is like. And that I believe is why he won. I think you know what I'm saying? Is my style of like, like, I can blow my whistle as a referee and I can say red card violation, red card violation. Why?
Dr. Kim MClear:I guess I could do that, but I would much rather blow my whistle in a way that is inviting a new, more beautiful world where everyone can actually like be on the field together and have fun together. So it's difference of framing and perspective. I position myself as I am one of us. I am not the outsider blowing the whistle against someone. I am deeply one of us and really the outsiders are the people who are violating the laws, are harassing.
Dr. Kim MClear:Those are the outliers, those are the outsiders that don't belong in this beautiful, vibrant future that we're trying to build together. And that was a shift that I had to share with people. It's like, I'm not your enemy. Don't come at me sideways.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. So before I ask you the Ronderings question, you you remember I had mentioned that I was I went to a webinar on using futurism to Mhmm. Create organizational sustainability. And so I wanna use your incredible brilliance, lived experience, and expertise. Something that we talked about on the phone when we first chatted was, what do we want this future to be like?
Ron Rapatalo:Because you and I were, like, having a really good vibe of, like, shit sucks right now in a lot of aspects in America. Right? And when I think of my own individual experience, I'm still experiencing joy. There's still some good things going on, but, like, in the whole, like, shit is rough. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:And so I would love for you to share with the audience with some of what you've learned around systems change. What would you advise us around being able to change what is happening in our country because I think a lot of folks I talk to at times feel helpless. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's not just
Dr. Kim MClear:difficult right now. I would say it has been difficult for a very long time. Yeah. And I think that's one one of the reasons why earlier when we were talking about how important literacy is, how important traveling is because it's a window into other people's living. Yes.
Dr. Kim MClear:And and so many so much of American culture is bubbles within bubbles and bubbles across our social media and news you know, it's just bubbles. Right. And and I think that, you know, there's so much at stake. But to say there's so much at stake because of election results or anything in relation to American context would be a bit myopic in terms of it's global. You know, there's lots of issues happening around the world that have been going on longer than, you know, kind of recent 2025 situation.
Dr. Kim MClear:So I do believe that something you said earlier about embodiment. So I do believe that to accept despair is to accept that we don't have the ingredients within us. And I don't mean purely individual, mean, collectively us to imagine different futures. Imagination comes from, I believe a lot of it comes from the literacy piece. Literacy can come in the form of traveling books, movies, podcasts, but just simply means literacy of different experiences, literacy of different ways of living and knowing and existing and experiencing the full range of human expression and our human condition.
Dr. Kim MClear:So I think that it's not about the, like the big sweeping things that we can do. It's really about what are these small things, not small as an insignificant, but what are we willing to let go? What are we willing to do differently? What are we holding on to and why? Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:If I had spent and this goes back to the kind of the energy perspective, if I'm spending my energy saying, don't like this, I don't like this, I don't like this, then that's all of my energy.
Ron Rapatalo:Right.
Dr. Kim MClear:But if I spend maybe redirecting that energy towards, well, what's what's something I can do today for myself?
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:Maybe it's walking for twenty minutes. What's something I can do for my neighbor? And then in the course of doing that, maybe you realize your neighbor, is having difficulty with their medical insurance or what have you, right? So that may lead to okay, well, but the government's cutting this and I don't like that. Okay, but, you know, maybe that means we set up our own mutual aid network.
Dr. Kim MClear:So we can't place everything on why are things happening. I think we have to place things on what can we do within our own capacities to help each other, help ourselves? I think by framing it that way, it's really more about our shared humanity. And I see a lot of 2026 in particular around energy and where people are constantly choosing to invest their energy. And I don't think it's going to look like where we put our energy in 2025.
Dr. Kim MClear:I really don't. We need to put our energy into not just dreaming of different futures, but taking small steps towards it.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:If there is neighborhood park out there that's dilapidated and falling apart, Why wait for city council or your county officials to fix it? Grab a couple of friends, grab a paint bucket. I go back to, like I said, like my, the song you had mentioned or asked me to think about like Trades of the Bone. Like it's, it's just it's more of an anthem about pride. Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:And knowing that we need to nourish our environment as our environment should be nourishing us. And if we are so focused on the oppressive environment that someone else built, we're actually losing sight of the beauty of the natural living systems environment that's already around us. That's literally waiting for us to like wake up and pay attention. Yeah. So, so I, I see a lot of 2026 and beyond.
Dr. Kim MClear:There's gonna be a major shift in where we place our energy. And I think in terms of the the the resonance and the small acts becoming larger acts, it's contagious. When you grab a couple of friends and you pick up that paint bucket, it's contagious. Someone's gonna be like, hey, what are y'all doing? I wanna join.
Dr. Kim MClear:Right? Someone paints a mural. You know, all of these things may seem small, but they're not small in terms of significance. And I think that for me is the biggest point is we have to start practicing the future that we want. It's not just going to fall from the clouds.
Dr. Kim MClear:We have to practice what we want. And just like whether you're talking about sports or music, you practice, you just don't play an orchestra.
Ron Rapatalo:You
Dr. Kim MClear:have to practice, you pick up an instrument, whatever floats your boat.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes.
Dr. Kim MClear:And you practice, you're not going to get the notes, right? It's going to be squeaky, you're going to be out of key, but that's okay. Just practice, play. And the more you practice and play, you're gonna find your village. And that is going to pull people out of this despair.
Dr. Kim MClear:So that would be my my Ronderings lens on on the the future question you asked.
Ron Rapatalo:Well, this is a perfect segue, Kim, if you wanna share an additional Ronderings aside from the Ronderings lens you just shared about what we should do for our for our future. Right? So I'll leave it to you. What lesson or value do you wanna share with the audience today on top of what you already shared?
Dr. Kim MClear:I would say, I've I've covered, I think, most of everything. I would say despair oftentimes is a function of oppressive systems by design. And I think when we kind of see behind the curtain, it's kind of like this big, clunky, clumsy, violent, yes. But it's very clunky.
Ron Rapatalo:The think of wicked for good, by the way.
Dr. Kim MClear:And the more you see behind the curtain, you're like, wait a second. Like, I'm like, they're not even good at authoritarianism. They're not even good at fascism. Right? So like, it's it's clunky.
Dr. Kim MClear:Right? And so I think that there are more opportunities to engage and to disrupt to get to this kind of flat footed kind of posture we talked about before. But you have to be able to again, invest the energy into those small acts to start practicing the future, And do it with some misfits and some outcasts and some, you know, X Men, like create your own X Men cast, right? People who get you, people who you don't have to shrink around, people who you vibe with. And that's what I see the, you know, the future looking like is just the quirkiness of coming together.
Dr. Kim MClear:And, and it's, it's needed. I know I'm rambling a little bit, but I just wanted to also just share this last piece about like clunkiness.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes.
Dr. Kim MClear:It's like with AI and tech, like tech bros and whatnot, like it's flattening us, you know, like why does everyone's LinkedIn posts sound the same? Like it's flattening us, it's suppressing our creativity. And that's what I really love around like X Men, Misfits, Outcasts. Like we need the flavor, we need the quirkiness and like, those are superpowers.
Ron Rapatalo:They are.
Dr. Kim MClear:Those are superpowers, you
Ron Rapatalo:know? Absolutely.
Dr. Kim MClear:And we are nature, are nature. So all of our variances, all of our variety, all of our diversity, like those are all superpowers. So I think that that's one of the reasons why, right? Let's cancel DEI, right? I think it's intentional for all those reasons, because if you can flatten people into the sameness, then people don't recognize their own strengths anymore.
Dr. Kim MClear:Right? So it's a form of suppression and control. So I say lean into all of our beautiful messy quirkiness that makes us unique and human, and do it with other quirky weird people as well, and have fun with it. I think that's a far more interesting way to build futures than than reacting to the oppressive exhaust Yeah. Of these systems.
Dr. Kim MClear:It's like, get away from the fumes. Get away from the oppressive fumes
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Dr. Kim MClear:And go find your village of quirky, weird people.
Ron Rapatalo:I love that. I already have my own group of quirky, weird people, and it's like it's getting me to think about, like, creating more and more of those, like, concentric circles and combining them and letting them combine on their own. Right? So Kim, before I let you go, how do people find you? What would you like to promote?
Dr. Kim MClear:Oh, people can find me on LinkedIn. I think my LinkedIn handle is justdrkim or just search Kim MClear, MClear, and promote. I just want to promote like, everyone should have a really amazing 2026. And I like to promote like our ancestors, Toni Morrison, right? Like there is no time for despair.
Dr. Kim MClear:There's no time for silence. Like this is the time that artists go to work. Paraphrasing, of course, but she says this is the time when civilizations heal. So I think like, that is what I wanna promote is our artistry, our creativity, our ingenuity, and like, let's paint some amazing futures together.
Ron Rapatalo:I love that. Well, thank you for being a part of helping me to create this future that I'm curating on the Ronderings podcast and other things that I'm doing. Feeling very grateful for that conversation we had this summer and having this conversation here on Ronderings. So thank you again, Kim, for being a part of this. And I always like to end these podcasts in the words of one of my sports heroes, Dion Sanders, we always come hot with amazing guests like Dr. Kim MClear.
Ron Rapatalo:Peace y'all. Wow. Wow. Wow. Kim's story is a masterclass in strategy, creativity, and courage.
Ron Rapatalo:She reminds us that disrupting broken systems isn't about noise or heroics. It's about rhythm, timing, building communities that can sustain change. What she's shown is that even in the face of massive barriers, you can sense your dignity, stay disciplined, and keep your joy. So as you go through your week, think about the small, messy, beautiful actions you can take in your corner of the world. And if you still feel stuck, remember what Kim said, find your quirky village, create with them, practice the future you want.
Ron Rapatalo:Kim, thank you so much for sharing your story, your strategy, your heart. Peace.
Ron Rapatalo:Thank you for listening to today's Ronderings. I enjoyed hanging out with me and my guests, and I hope you leave with something worth chewing on. If it made you smile, think, or even roll your eyes in a good way, pass it along to someone else. I'm Ronder Rapatalo, until next time, keep Ronderings, keep laughing, and keep becoming
Ron Rapatalo:podcaststhatmatter.org.
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