Episode 92
· 57:47
What's up? I'm Ron Rapatalo, and this is the Ronderings podcast. Around here, I sit down with guests for real, unpolished conversations about the lessons and values that shaped them. And I'll be right there with you, sharing my own take, laughing at myself when I need to, and wondering out loud about this messy thing called life. Glad you pulled up a chair.
Ron Rapatalo:Let's get into it. Welcome back to Ronderings, where we slow down just enough to make meaning, breathe a little deeper, and learn from the people who are shaping how we lead, love, and live. Today's guest, my homegirl Amirah Raveneau-Bey is a force, third generation entrepreneur, corporate builder, revenue philosopher, and someone who understands that leadership is equal parts to clarity, connection, and emotional regulation. In this conversation, we go from Long Island workshops and Broadway pit orchestras, to Citibank cubicles where she got in trouble for thinking too creatively, to executive suites of Zillow, NerdWallet, and Opendoor, and ultimately to founding Grow Scale Develop, where she teaches leaders the truth most avoid, you cannot scale a business you're not personally growing into. We cover what revenue actually means, why sales is really about solving problems for humans, like between rest and creativity, and why every strong leader needs a place where they don't have to be strong.
Ron Rapatalo:Amen to that. So get ready for depth, honesty, and some real leadership gems. Let's get into it. Hey, friends. Before we get started, I wanna share something that's been a big part of my own journey.
Ron Rapatalo:Two years ago, I published my book Leverage. That experience cracked something open for me. I saw how publishing isn't just about pages, about owning your story, sharpening your voice, and amplifying your impact. The part that meant the most, readers reached out to me to say they felt seen. That's when I knew this work mattered.
Ron Rapatalo:I loved it so much I cofounded Leverage Publishing Group with friends who would make know this world inside and out. Now we help leaders, entrepreneurs, and change makers turn their ideas into books and podcasts that actually move people. We've got a star in you, and I know you do. Let's chat. Find me on LinkedIn or at leveragepublishinggroup.com.
Ron Rapatalo:Because the world doesn't just need more books, it needs your book. Alright. Let's get to today's episode. Peace. Ronderings Universe.
Ron Rapatalo:I have one of my dear friends, former coaches on leadership and business development, Amirah Raveneau-Bey is on the Ronderings mic finally. Hey. How you
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:doing today? I'm doing wonderful, Ron. How are you?
Ron Rapatalo:You know, people, when they see me on this podcast, like, does Ron never have energy? So y'all get super energetic Ron by design. But like, if you don't see me like I took a ten minute nap before this because I'm like, Yo, if I'm going bring energy, I need to rest, too. It's like,
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:that's right. Well, some people there, hopefully when they're listening, they're getting some energy, right? Because that's why they're listening. They need some energy. They need to be powered up, fired up.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:So I
Ron Rapatalo:hope so, too. I'm fired at all. I hear is Busta in the background. Oh, it's like, oh, calm down.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:No. No. Maybe not. Maybe Maybe not. Maybe that maybe that's needed for today.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Right? We we're gonna
Ron Rapatalo:maybe we'll infuse a little
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:bit nineties, eighties hip hop, you know. You know. You never know.
Ron Rapatalo:And I know that my most recently published episode at the time of this recording was with our mutual friend, Cecilia Paz Aguilar. So we talked nineties r and b on her podcast episode. She evaded ask you know, giving me three songs. She's like, Rob, that feels limiting. So she gave me her three what three of her favorite r and b artists from the nineties.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm like, okay. I might have to ask you the same question, but we'll see.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Oh, I didn't think about that. That's that, that, those are a lot of decisions because
Ron Rapatalo:It is a lot of I love
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:have Yeah. A lot of
Ron Rapatalo:I'm very opinionated about my number one. I get into fights with my missus about it because her number one, because she's a Bmore gal, is Dru Hill. And I love me some Dru Hill. Let me be clear about them things. Loves train, you know, tell me, I mean beautiful vocals, but my heart naughty's R and B's Jodeci.
Ron Rapatalo:Jodeci all day, every day, day, every day.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:So I grew up in New York. So Jodeci does went over to hell, but, but they're both really important to creating who we were.
Ron Rapatalo:Oh, thousand percent. You know, all the crushes I had unrequited crushes disproportionately come from like remembering Joe to see music.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I mean, come and talk to me was the song that I was like, you know, when you're walking down the street in the 1st Floor, that was the song I needed to hear. You got you got me. I'm look, I'm looking to leave.
Ron Rapatalo:So God, come and talk to me brings like ninth grade memories, both good Lots and not so of great memories. Lots of great memories. Amirah, let's get started. What's your story?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Well, I mean, I think you know about the hip hop and R and B growing in that genre that I love. But I'm the founder of Grow, Scale, Develop. I help founders and executives build momentum through better revenue systems and stronger leadership, right? I believe you cannot really scale a business you're not personally growing into. So I've spent the past twenty five years in my career sales, go to market leadership roles.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I worked at Citibank. I call that chapter one of my career. It gave me great foundation back in the East Coast. And then I kind of went to the tech world and there was Zillow, Trulia, Zillow, that IPO, fun stuff, NerdWallet, Opendoor. And that's where I learned about revenue is never about numbers.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:It's about people. It's about clarity. It's about alignment. I had to run those teams, grow those teams, scale those teams. I was responsible for delivering numbers.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I was responsible for getting leaders, getting to leaders to leaders to get the people to do it in multiple locations, Moved into operations, moved into customer ops. And I found my calling as a third generation entrepreneur who decided, thought I was taking the corporate path and then somehow came full circle and joined the family and became an entrepreneur myself, which is where I got here running my own VC backed company and then ultimately coming home to what I know and do for other companies. Yeah. For myself, which is helping people figure those pieces out.
Ron Rapatalo:So Yeah. So you've listened to my episodes before, so there's a little bit of like, shout out to Skip Gates in Finding Your Roots. I love getting into people's backstory. So when you mentioned being a third generation entrepreneur, bring that. Let's go way back, way back into time.
Ron Rapatalo:Maybe maybe not five hundred years ago. Right? But with the first and second generation entrepreneurs in your family, like let's bring them to the forefront. Yeah.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:So I'm gonna go I'll I'll go to my grandmother. Right? My grandparents, actually, on my father's side, both of them on Long Island. My grandfather was an amazing, you know, mechanic electrical guru repair. And from that, my grandmother was the business brain who saw the opportunity and said, well, we have the ability to grow.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:They bought a building. Had lots of customers. At that time, it was so forward movement thinking, particularly on Long Island in New York, for them to do that. And so they did, and they had an amazing, you know, story and history. But because of that, my father and my uncle grew up seeing that, both of them being entrepreneurs.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:My father found his calling in music. So there you go. There's the There
Ron Rapatalo:you go.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:He found his creativity and his love is music, and he's a drummer and percussionist. And being that, he also decided to morph his business, not just being a musician. He did tours across did on Broadway, Bob Fosse Dance and Bubba Brown Sugar, all these amazing shows.
Ron Rapatalo:Look at that.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:But, yeah. He also realized there was so much opportunity within that. And so he married arts and education. And so he built his business around teaching arts, particularly as it was losing in New York. A lot of the arts are being stripped out of schools.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And so if you're a haves, you got it. If you're a have not, you didn't. And there was funding. And so he continued to do that. So he, you know, my mom was like, that touring thing is a lot.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:You have a child, you have family. Me and my sister. Yeah. And so he found his way to be able to do that, and he still does it. Still, if he is not teaching students or oh, you know, we're recording this in December.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:If he is not in some community group teaching, playing, he is not his best self. Like he is his Zen meditation is him playing those drums, inspiring others. So and my uncle does metaphysical work and it just so the entrepreneur bug, I actually said no to consciously. Oh yeah. Consciously because it said it's hard.
Ron Rapatalo:Right. Duh. Duh. We like hard things. Don't we Amirah?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Apparently I was like, I don't think I want to do that. I want to I think I want a nine to five. Sign me up for the nine to five. Yeah. And so I took that route, right?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Went to college and I did that and Citibank and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn't recognize that there was an entrepreneurial spirit in me because I didn't recognize it. I thought that's what I wanted. And I now look back at times where I was in the city and I got in trouble. My boss was like, we can't, we have to stay in the box.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I'm like, but I got this creative idea how we're going get business. This is this. And they're like, got to stay in the box, Amirah. Is I remember one boss loved him dearly. It was like, I didn't hear that.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And if you're successful, we'll be excited. But I did not hear anything you just said and walked out the room and I was like, I can be creative. And so I was able to be creative and be able to like get clients. I did this kids day event totally off the road. You know, Did this amazing thing that I thought community was fun.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:So I ran away from it and then I, it somehow found me. I had this, you know, you get to your career, you're at the certain level, you're the C suite, you're sitting there and you're like, but am I really happy? Like what else could I be doing? I want more. Sounds crazy.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. I had a quarter life crisis. You know, I worked, I think you and I have talked about this. I worked at an investment bank in the early two thousands, right? It was, you know, towards the end of the .com era, they were scooping up people left and right.
Ron Rapatalo:My sister worked at the at the company and pulled me in. She got a nice referral bonus. I did fixed income ops, then mortgage loan ops, you know, for three years total between those two things. And what was interesting about working there is, like, I'm very grateful for learning what it's like to work in that kind of, like, big global place. And yet I'll I missed there was a lot demystified of, like, working inside there that I was just like, you know, all this stuff about like the brand and what they say they are and like actually working there was like, I felt like a widget.
Ron Rapatalo:I hated it in that regard. Right? And when you speak about creativity, like, one of the things I still remembered working at this place was, I mean, as you've gotten to know me, Amirah, like, there are people whose minds move fast. I move faster than that. I'm just, like, fast.
Ron Rapatalo:And once I start to figure out a process, I can just move through it. Right? If it seems and so I was the person who'd like run concurrent processes to like take loans down because I'm like, we're using this big ass mainframe. Like, why wouldn't people like, why would you do that, Ron? That doesn't we do things one at a time.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm like, but why would we have this hot and so the parting thought that I remember bef like, then then I left is, like, my manager at the time, don't I think she told this directly to me, but she told other people on Teams, like, you know, Ron can get here at noon and do all of our work and leave by five. Literal quote. And it's not like there was an insignificant amount of work. It's just, like, frankly, the work was was easy for me. Right.
Ron Rapatalo:Right. And I think that's where we just like the feeling of in a box. The work wasn't really like allowed to be creative or like rigorous. And I just was like, I need something where I'm challenged because I'm not challenged, which I think is a part of the entrepreneurial bug. Right.
Ron Rapatalo:I need to be challenged through like creating something that doesn't really exist.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:That's right. That's right. You know, it's funny. My my joke was when your boss said that, I could imagine the people around them, their faces looking at you like, thanks, Ron.
Ron Rapatalo:You know, I'm sorry. I'm talented. Did I say that? Yeah. Oops.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:You did say that. And I will say that you're totally right. That's why I actually jumped. Being in corporate in a big company was amazing. I'm gratitude for all stages.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I learned what great looked like in a big company because I saw someone who dedicated this widget thing and they were really good at it, right? I took that and when I went to tech because tech was like, I don't remember, I was like, I was like, they're like, here's your team and we need you to scale. And I was like, all right, where's my HR business partner and where's my data? And they were like, we don't have any of that. Go build that.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I was like, what do what do you mean you don't have any of this? And so I had to create that. That was exhilarating, right? To be able to like, oh, you mean you know to do this? Like, you want me to do it?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Done. And so I loved being able to build that in the tech world. I also learned the fact that every business is a little different, and so I could pull from different pieces of it. And so, you you can read an amazing book and be like, this is the way to do the thing. But the reality is until you put it into life practice with an actual company and a team and an org, it might require tweaking.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And I love the creativity of that. So that was super, super, super exciting for me. And it accelerated my career tremendously through that because I was able to learn and adapt and recognize that leadership is not about just executing a plan, right? It's in my opinion, 10% strategy, 90% emotional regulation. Like you need to understand people.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:That's really important.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. You you read my mind, and we did talk about this in our green room convo is how much, right, in scaling a company and doing revenue business development. You and I are super aligned, which is why I think we had such a great symbiotic relationship when you've coached me on two different places, right, is how much doing really good business development and sales is predicated on the relationship and how you lead through that. Right? And so talk to us a little bit about how you support clients with that in your practice because it's something, as I think about a previous episode I recorded with a buddy of mine who's a chief growth officer, right, who's super relationship focused like you and I are, I went on like a mini rant.
Ron Rapatalo:I was like, why don't people get it? Like, it's so it like really it bothers me. I'm gonna be like, I'm nice. I think I'm nice about it, but like, because I am so relationship centered, if someone is struggling with it and they think it's, like, strategy, I'm, like, I'm a be clear on some things. This is gonna sound cocky.
Ron Rapatalo:I run motherfucking circles around you. No. Did I say, oh, Brooklyn. Didn't show Brooklyn. Brooklyn
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Brooklyn. Brooklyn, I mean, who do we expect to come? We're not in the green room, Ron, not anymore. He came out. He came out.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:That's okay. Everyone needs
Ron Rapatalo:to come back. Go go back
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:in the kitchen. See, that's what Amirah does actually allow you to be your authentic self. Right. Because at the end of the day, we need your authentic self. To your point, you know, to me, generally, I mean, I came in, it's so funny, my career was always around sales, right?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And they were like, Our sales isn't great. We hired you. Whether it was, you know, for my company now today or in the past. Sales isn't great. We need to get better.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:We're losing customers. We don't know why. At the end of the day, generally, the revenue problem is not about revenue and numbers and a strategy that got misaligned. Generally, it's not that. Generally, it's who's responsible for making sure that those revenue numbers are there, and do they have the skill sets and the insights to be able to do it?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Do they understand the customer? I'm a big proponent of you need to Sales is not about pushing something on someone who doesn't need it. You should be solving a problem. Okay? You know recruiting fairly well, right?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Your job is to identify and understand what actually the person who's trying to hire is looking for and find them that right match. That is what sales is. You are trying to you have something amazing and you're trying to find the person that actually your product solves, period. That's what it should do. It should feel authentic.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:It should feel natural. Now you've got to be able to help people understand to understand their problems, understand their solutions, understand, give them skill sets, but it's about matching. And so and that very little microscopic view of like just that sale or that business development or that partnership, when you're leading a business, it's the same thing. I need to make sure that I've got the right person who can solve this problem, this marketing problem for me. And I need to make sure that they understand it.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And I need to make sure they have clarity and confidence and all the skill sets to do it. That's really what it is. But I think we get lost in the sauce of trying to think that it's not about It's, you know, it's about hammering people and forcing things. Really is not that. But it's a skill that most people, we don't really learn.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Where do you learn that?
Ron Rapatalo:All right. Let me keep it real. A lot of us have write a book in our goals list, maybe for years. I sure did. Good news is there's more than one way to get it done.
Ron Rapatalo:If you've got more money than time, a ghost writer can help bring your story to life. If you got more time than money, a great book coach can guide you through the process step by step. If you've already written a thing, you'll want someone to shepherd you through publishing so you don't waste time or cash. Here's the thing though, no matter how you do it, the real win is writing the right book. The one that builds your credibility, grows your business and actually makes a difference.
Ron Rapatalo:That's what the team at Books That Matter is all about. Head to booksthatmatter.org and get some feedback in your ID or manuscript. Don't sit on it any longer, your book could be exactly what the world needs. And so I'm curious in your practice, how do you support sales teams leaders to bring that emotional regulation as a bigger part of their practice, right? Because I think when, you know, I've had the privilege of you coaching me, right, through these things.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? And I think that's a lot of, like, what we often talked about is I reflect upon most of the coaching combos and, group combos that we had. Yeah. I mean, we talk strategy, but it wasn't the thrust of most of what you and I talked about. Right.
Ron Rapatalo:And I think that but sometimes I think folks might have perceived if especially it was with many people that it was about the strategy and the process. Right. But in my head, I'm like, no, fam, this is like really more about how do we, as you said, understand the customer. There's a lot of like insight about how you listen and how you're building trust and rapport that then if you add, because I think that what I've learned particularly from you is like, I've learned to sell over time and moving from talent acquisition is, it's just a lot of listening rapport building.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:That's right.
Ron Rapatalo:Because if someone were to like be shadow me in my calls, right, and it's like, when I reflect and like listen to some of these calls, right, it's a lot of like listening, rapport, hearing things back, God, thank God for AI for me to write good follow-up emails. Don't have to remember because I'm like, like, AI has been really good for that for me, where I can write some pretty dope follow-up emails, just like go, write a good follow-up email based on these notes, like, and say, well, I blah blah blah blah blah is the right fit for this. And I'm like, oh, damn, this is pretty good. But also, because that's not strategy. That's a little bit of like the emotional insight, being able like lay things in a way and like give voice, right?
Ron Rapatalo:Because people, I think what you and I have experienced is like people want to work for people that they trust. Yes, the product and services to be good. But so let's want to hear like your insight on helping people on their emotional regulation and like their EI and social.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I mean, that's what it is. I mean, and I always say the more your product costs, right? Or the more they exchange for it, the better you actually have to be, right? So I need to be able to trust that you actually, a customer, heard me, right? That you're not just making me do something that you want to do, but you actually heard what I need.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:We all have needs, right? We all have needs to get coffee or tea or food or the you buy a car. You go to a restaurant and you're looking at the menu and the waiter tells you something. And then you're, like, confused. And you ask them a question of like, well, what do you think about this thing?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Right? When they say everything's fine, do you trust them? No. Right? Generally, they when they go, this one is my favorite, and they look at you with the eye.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:The eye is like the trust signal. Like, trust me on this. You immediately go, I'll get this one. Right? So no matter where we are, just as humans, we want to know that we're doing the right thing for ourselves.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And we hope to be surrounded by people that will actually give us things that are on our benefit for what we need. We all have to get exchanges for something. We all have to sell something or buy something. You want to make sure that the person you're working with is doing the right thing for you and not just themselves. Core fundamental trust.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:The rapport is a way of showing that. Right? How do you remember? I mean, yes, I love my AI for notes. Why?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Because sometimes it will remember things of the conversation that I might have missed because I'm in the moment. That they said in the beginning that they had a really difficult time because they dropped out their kid late and blah, blah, blah. Right? Just by me looking at that note again and kind of bringing it back and saying, hope you were able to connect with your child. Right?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Like, it shows you care. That's powerful rapport building. You need that. It's important. And can I just say not just sales, but being good leaders, right?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:It's on both sides of the fence. People generally quit not because of the job, generally not because of pay. It's I don't have the stat in front of me, but it's because they have
Ron Rapatalo:a bad
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:boss, period. Nonstop. The boss does not care. That's what it is.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. Let's focus then, I think, a lot more discreetly then on, you know, your leadership coaching practice. Right? You've talked a lot about how, you know, in the world of sales that, you know, folks need some motion regulation. When you're working in your leadership coaching practice, what kind of themes are you seeing these days across sectors that you're working with people?
Ron Rapatalo:Right? Because let's name all the things that's happening in 2025 and probably will also be some part of 2026. Right. Leaders are having a much more difficult time because of the pressure on them. That's coming from lots of different things from like, you know, the state of the economy, the pressure of like, you know, the amount of work that they have to do.
Ron Rapatalo:Right. You know, the the culture of the organizations and how people are responding to it or not being paid attention to it, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So I'd love to hear some
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:of your thoughts there. Yeah. I mean, I have to just state that, you know, I actually didn't I originally started my journey on just because what I did was sales. What I didn't put the dots right into the entrepreneurship journey is that even though people were asking me to help them with their sales, the clear thing to me was they didn't know how to lead and coach their teams to get the results. They didn't know how to have clarity.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:They didn't know how have vision. They didn't know how to communicate, which then shifted the conversation from sales and business development to leadership. Right? Yeah. And that's the same thing that you would do in house.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And so I found that super interesting because to the point of themes that we're hearing today, I think what we are missing the most I find right now is that there is this huge pressure for people that they want to perform. Huge pressure. Because I work with founders, I work with CEOs. And there's like this, I must hit this number. I have to get out the road.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:There's like this push against his wall. And they're pushing so hard that they're forgetting to ask and share and give clarity to their teams. They're not helping people understand the why. Right? And they expect the people on their team to just grind it out.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I don't know if I agree. Right? Yeah. Actually, I don't even think the leadership really grind it out personally. I actually think that they should take a step back, get some clarity a moment.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:They're not going to stop thinking about their business and then come back in with a fresh pair of perspective to look at the problem differently, not just grind it out. But I noticed this grinding, stressful moment leader who is like, do this, do this, do this. But they're not helping their people get clarity on it. They're not helping them understand. They're not connecting the dots.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And partly it's because they don't really understand sometimes, but they're not investing the time to having it. Because what I've observed is that great leaders sometimes miss is that the people that they have on their team will come up with some of the most amazing ideas and will do a lot of hard work for them if they're allowed, if they have permission. It's a missing point.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. It's so interesting, right? I often go back to one of my favorite personal development leaders and authors, Daniel Pink. The book Drive.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:Autonomy, mastery, and purpose. Those are three things you want in life, certainly in your career and your job. Right? And as I reflect upon where I've been for the last, like, you know, fifteen years. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:You know, the combination of autonomy, mastery, and purpose has been higher than not. Right? Especially autonomy. Right? And I think one of the things so I relate it to something that if people follow me on Instagram, you get to see a snippet of, like, Ron's workouts.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? Why do I work out like that? Right? Partially because I enjoy it.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:Bigger part is because the the kind of pouring into me that allows me to be a better leader, better human, better father, better husband, blah blah blah blah blah. That's more important. Right? Yes. There's physical stuff, but, like, there's a means to an end because it's not like I'm getting paid.
Ron Rapatalo:Like, it'd be nice to be paid, like, you know, like, Jellen Brunson or Giannis or, you know, these app, but I don't get paid like that. So that's different. Not yet. Not yet. Right.
Ron Rapatalo:Not yet. Maybe someday with some other venture. Right. But it's interesting for me because when it comes to, I think, leading and like my wellness journey, right, That nine to eleven that I spend working out Monday through Friday, something like in the current place I'm at, the place I was at before. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:It's just blocked out my calendar, and it gives me related to my autonomy, let Ron cook, he's going to produce results. That's kind of the implicit like, I've given people, it's like, if you let me cook and take care of myself and let me be a full human uh-oh, Brooklyn Ron's here just for five minutes. You're special.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Listen. Let me cook. Let me That means you've been trusted. Right? There's that trust part.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Right? Yeah. You got to trust people. And I I don't always see that we trust people will have our backs, right, on our teams. And you have to give them give them a help them understand what the big what the big goal is.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Right? Help them understand that, listen, we need to break through this wall together, and this is where I see the problem. They may have ideas and amazing thoughts around it or validate something you've been thinking about in your brain all night. And then let them do it. Let them do it.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I mean, if you're a owner of a business or CEO and you've got somebody that's thinking about your business and giving you ideas, you need to be hugging them really tight. Okay? Because because the only person that's really responsible to do that is you. So when you have anyone else on your team that cares about the success and wellness of your business, you absolutely should be so excited to be with them and hugging them tight and giving them a lot of support because that is golden. They're in it.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense, right? Because as we know, the job of being a CEO and ED, like when you're that singular title, it's lonely. For sure.
Ron Rapatalo:Because you and I have coached, like, in my own, like, side coaching practice. Right? Coaching those folks, like, it's, I feel the weight of that role without myself having been fully in that role. Right? And it's it's a role where it's like when you have good people around you that are down to work as hard or committed, like, you have to, like, spending time pouring into them and quote unquote not taking them for granted.
Ron Rapatalo:So I think it's easy, and this happens across sectors. Like we have quote unquote high performers. Like sometimes the feeling is like, I don't need support because they're just gonna do. Sort of just run their own thing. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:I think the better question is like checking in with those folks like me, like is what do you need? How can we support you? What ideas do you have? How do we like create and do these things? Right.
Ron Rapatalo:And I know when I put pour into like that, because this is the way my brain works, just like you, like we're creatives. Right. So ideating for me is like, I can ideate all day. My God, that's joy. Do I want to implement all the time?
Ron Rapatalo:It depends on what it is. Right. That's really then there's a strategy component of like, who are the people that could be doing the things? Like, yeah, I can do grunt work, but, like, is that always the best use of my time? Generally not.
Ron Rapatalo:But I think when you're, like, in these kind of businesses and this work that you and I are doing, like, you also like modeling that you're willing to, like, do some of that, signals to people at some level, like, oh, they really get it too. And there's work that's not beyond them. They're not better than. Right. Cause I think that's often an important signal to send in especially, like, startup entrepreneurial places.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? If it's more established, it's different. I get it. Right? You don't expect the CEO to, like, know what the day to day person is doing at the analyst level.
Ron Rapatalo:Like, that's not their job. That's not why they're there anymore, I don't think. Right? But in these startup entrepreneurial places, like you want someone who like models like, oh, you really get what I do and like, oh, you can even sometimes touch it every oh.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Every so often. I would say I have a client that is not in the traditional business, in higher education. And pretty senior, they report to the president of college. And I would say even no matter if you are a leader, you have responsibility, though, to connect with people. I'm a big fan of skip levels.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I'm a big fan of going and having town halls and meetings. The ideas that people have from their advantage point. It's like where you sit in the room, you see things a little differently. You can help move the needle. You just talked about how where you were sitting, you figured out when you were doing your work how to have a twelve to five day and do the work differently.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Right? That was what you saw your value. Obviously, we know that you were amazing and talented to do it. However, you saw a way to do it that others may not have ever seen it. And so I think as leaders, it's important, what your leader did for you, is to be able to get out of their day to day and see what's happening in the business, in the org, hear the feedback.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And if you're really good at it, then you will be able to plan a lot better because you've got insight or intel of what's about to happen. That's the beauty of leaders. But you're right, it is a really lonely place to be. And so it is also important as a leader, you surround yourself not just with a team, but coaching, leaders, support, whatever you need to be able to be the best yourself because you need another ally that's thinking about you too.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. I want to bring something to the forefront. I'm wondering how this shows up in your practice, right? As I've been reflecting on how you've supported me, how I've, in organizations, I think, figured out relatively early on that having conversations with people across the org, especially as I moved into leadership, was really important. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:So that was not always always going up. It was also peers going down to other levels and just getting to know people. Right? Because, you know, I think what you and I have had, which comes pretty innately to us these days is so much is poured into us. Like, there's something really amazing pouring into other people.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? And so I will make the following statement. I'm wondering how this goes in your practice, how you support other leaders with this is I get even more excited when others succeed. So when I power lift and I can coach, like, I'm not a certified coach. I'm not.
Ron Rapatalo:And yet, because of the way that I work out, how disciplined I am, and my eye for it, I'm always training it. I I'm like obsessive at looking at people work out or I work out because like it trains my eye. Right. So then I could because if and then depending on relationship, giving others feedbacks, like, do you mind if I share something with you? And people say, like, oh, like, oh, thank you.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? Because that sharpens me for myself too. Right? So seeing others succeed gets me even more excited than seeing myself succeed. Talk to me about how that looks like in your leadership coaching practice.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I think that that actually is really, really important. Right? Yeah. It's it's important for you to see someone else do it so that you know it's possible. I think that's why we all have the challenges in front of us.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Right? The challenge that you had five years ago felt really hard, I'm sure. And you got through it. You now have a story. You now have a lesson.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:You have now experience. You didn't need to be you didn't need to certified. You have experience to what someone else might be going through. Right. And now you have the gift to be able to do it and they have the gift to give it to you.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Right. And you get the gift to see someone because you understand the transformation. I think that's extremely important. And in fact, when I think about my when I have leaders that I'm coaching and we're not solving, tackling some, you know, have a lot of folks like I have this problem, right? I'm generally I got to I'm not it's not about my competency anymore.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:It's about how I manage people below, around, indirect, above, and it's very different, right? That's generally what I get, right? Those that's when that entry point of like, okay, I need someone that's kind of had to do it before. Yeah. Right.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And so they seek my support or recommendation comes to me for that. And it's super interesting because a part of understanding and unveiling that is to be able to really identify who you are as a leader. Great. Who you are as a leader five years ago, you should not be today. You shouldn't be.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Yeah. And at different levels, you now need to learn new skills because you're at a different level. That's why it's hard. That's why you're calling me because it's different. It's new.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:It's uncomfortable. Yeah. And you need to be able to give yourself the tools. And so to be able to see other people do it, to be able to reflect in your own self when you do it, to be able to be vulnerable, I should say, to hear what other people have
Ron Rapatalo:to say. Right? That's all important work that leaders have to do when you're growing in your leadership. Quick pause in the action here. I know a lot of us leaders, entrepreneurs, folks just trying to do good work, have felt that grind of pushing a boulder uphill by ourselves.
Ron Rapatalo:The learning is you don't actually have to do it all alone. Genius discovery program at thought leader path like having a think tank in your corner. It's not some cookie cutter formula but your story, your plan of impact, giving you the clarity and assets to take the next big step. I've seen people go through this and walk out with their voices amplified, ideas sharpened, some even launching podcasts like this one Ronderings. So if you're tired of grinding in the dark and you're ready to step into your impact with right support, check out geniusdiscovery.org.
Ron Rapatalo:I think one of the things I appreciated, Amirah, in working with you and seeing how you do this work, right, is that you have a a deep empathy for people. Right? Which hearing a little bit of your backstory comes from the entrepreneurial kind of generational thing your family. But also, I think when you and I have talked, we have been around lots of different people. You growing up on a Long Island, me in New York City.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? I think it's something as I reflect upon all the people in my network and then, true confession, I cheer people in my life. I always say it. I think we all do. I think people.
Ron Rapatalo:But but I always find a very fascinating tidbit. I think people perceive that I am everyone's best friend when I'm I don't feel that I am. But I think it's you know, when you make people feel really good, I could see that. Right. And I think I've learned to do that really well like you, because when you're in so many different circumstances in life, career and being around so many people, it allows you to like pull from things that sometimes don't make sense about how you're interacting with someone, but come from being in so many different circumstances around so many different people that the kind of then our creative brains Amirah allow us to have really creative solutions at some like, I think honestly, when you and I talk seems so obvious to us, but they'll be like, why did you complain?
Ron Rapatalo:What? I'm like, but that's not obvious. And I I have to, like, step back as a leader. I think this is maturity being 50 of saying, Ron, there's a lot that I've learned as a leader that's just not obvious to people. You have to like, like, chill with your Brooklyn Ron, your hubris around.
Ron Rapatalo:Chill. This is a teaching moment. Remember when others poured into you? There was shit that you thought was like, oh my God, I don't know that. And people poured into you because they had that wisdom.
Ron Rapatalo:Remember that. That's right.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I think that two things you said that made me think. One is there are some people, you and I share this, is like people may feel really connected because it's about the quality of the interactions. There's something about it. When, you know, when you're in a room and you're communicating with people, there's a quality of the conversation that immediately changes. It's different, right?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And that is why people feel closer because they are sharing probably more than what they would normally do in another interaction. But also because you are more innately interested in those things, you're getting to the heart of that. So you're enabling, you're quickening that trust factor. That's the superpower. That is a superpower.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I think that is something that we have to acknowledge that some people have it. Not everyone has that. Some people are really good at other things, right? They may be really good at being able to be more background and analyze from a way and be able to communicate and see things more broadly. Everyone's got their superpower.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I believe that. I don't know if everyone knows their superpower, but everyone has one. Right? Yeah. And so I think that that is why, you know, when you mentioned the best friend thing and made me think about it, I said, well, it's because really, Ron, like, I've been with you.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Like, I've seen you in action, right? Ask great questions to get people to say, oh, and you remember those and tie pieces together that enabling them to have better ideas that maybe they didn't have before, which makes you uniquely you, right? Which makes them also feel closer to you because you want I think everyone wants people that think amazing around them. They're all tearing. They're like, Oh, I love that idea what he did.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:He just moves from a C to a B. Oh, I had another interaction with him. Oh, he is a B to an A. I need to keep him in my orbit. And so I think that is a there's a value there for you.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And I think as me, when I do, is I want to create a safe place for people to feel like they can just and know that I'm listening and I'm reflecting, but I'm also trying to create and understand the dots that are happening in your life or career that will empower you
Ron Rapatalo:to get to the next dot.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And so that's what I try to do. Lean into your strengths, lean into your power, be curious about the things that And feel why are they uncomfortable? Right? Why is it uncomfortable to have this really difficult conversation with someone who you've always had a great relationship with? I don't know.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:What happened? What's going on? And what's the risk to you? What's the risk to them? And let's just let's just like unpack some of that.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Right? Because you ultimately relationships do matter when you grow in your career more than ever.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. Wanna take this on a little bit of different track before I ask you the Ronderings question, Amirah. As we know in coaching people, particularly leaders in high pressure situations, is a huge cognitive and emotional load for us as coaches.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:So I kind of my general question is, what do you do to rest, recover, find joy outside of like what you do day to day for business?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:So I believe that rest isn't a reward. It is a requirement for
Ron Rapatalo:those people. It should, but that's not the but that's not what we've been taught to believe, as you know.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:That's why I'm telling you, rest is not a reward. Okay.
Ron Rapatalo:She's got at least her first stamp of Ronderings here.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:It's like it is a requirement for the level of leadership we're asking people to step into. It's a requirement that I need to do is requirement for all. And you know who go back to our music and theater love. Yeah. Because I love that world, but I'm not really of that world.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I don't, you know, like I'm like a fan club of the world of creatives.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, same.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:One of the one of the lessons that you learn from them is that sometimes they need to step away from the day to day to create magic. Lin Manuel. Lin-Manuel. Yes. Okay.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:On a vacation, reading a book, trying to de stress comes with brilliance. It's not rocket science that he's not the only one that's done this before. We have to create that space so that, I believe, other things get poured into us that might inspire other work. And so it's not the culture we live in though, which is grind burnout, which is what I see all the time. Right.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Which is why I also love working with the senior leaders because I explained to them like, okay, you want to go here, but you can't even think about it because you, I don't, I don't live with you, but you look tired. Like you look tired, right? Like your job this weekend is to put up and watch something dumb on TV.
Ron Rapatalo:Tired leaders disproportionately make really bad decisions, even if their hearts in the right place. Let's be
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:absolutely. They just can't function. And so I think that it's so, so, so important to what do I do to your question? I do a few things, right? And I'm on the journey of like and which I'm telling you, the journey of learning rest.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Like, what does it mean to you? Yeah, I love music, right? Yes. Went to go see Robert Glasper, mentioned that in the Grammarly or to sit there and listen and hear some little bit jazz with some hip hop played in with Badu and Yebba. Like, you know, music is my happy place.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And my friends know that and love me. They're like, you want you want to go somebody who's going to love it? That's me. Yeah. Yeah.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I love theater. That's a nice place where I can sit in the middle of Hamilton Side. Don't ask me over 10 times when it came to the Bay Area. Set. I can literally just sit in the audience and there's nothing I hear and I'm connecting emotionally with the characters because they can do that to me, right?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Like Julius Thomas, an amazing actor who was the best SF resident. I was so impressed how he could actually sing that could be enough and a tear would come down. And I felt like I was I was in the moment. I was with him.
Ron Rapatalo:Oh, I could feel that.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Had the privilege of telling him that one time. Was like, I need to let you know that when you're there, I don't know what you do to get there, but I'm with you. Like, it's you just got to let go, right? Be in the moment. So I love that part.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I'm loving to learn more rest for working out, right? That challenge has been an amazing challenge that I can, like, jog for thirty minutes, forty minutes now and get it get into I the
Ron Rapatalo:know. Wasn't that last? We talked about this when we were in Boise together, like, and we had breakfast and we worked out together.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Yeah. Challenge myself on that. So I think rest is it is for me means that I'm able to just be in my body. Be be there. Happy.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Good. Not here, here. Right? Just being. Being.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And so I think we all need to spend more time being human beings, being in the moment, being there, allowing us to feel it, rested, you know, whatever that means connecting with people that create and bring that. But it is it is a requirement. Yeah. In my opinion.
Ron Rapatalo:Make me think of an episode I will be publishing. I met him through a buddy of mine who was a Ronderings guest, Russ Finkelstein. He runs a nonprofit called the rest of our lives, Josh Feldman. Talks just about that, like and and his big thing is how do you build restless infrastructure inside of these nonprofits?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I was like, oh, child. Ain't that a Oh, baby. I was like,
Ron Rapatalo:When that episode, like, blew my mind and such an incredible spirit like you. Like, this is just the blessing of being on Ronderings is is amazing people like you. So we've got Ronderings coming. Ronderings. I feel like this is song should come on
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:when I hear Ronderings. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:Mean, boy, I see. I'm not. If I can find someone that can come up with like a and not the ditty that like introduces this that has that feel like, you know, it's funny. The inspiration I gave for my production team to come up with that is like name three songs that really enjoy. And of course, it was all like nineties hip hop and R and B.
Ron Rapatalo:Of course. And so that
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Bell Biv DeVoe, but I'm from from you got one Bell Biv DeVoe.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, but that's the issue. Like for me, if like someone wrote a song called Ronderings, I'm just like my brain, but like I would know it if I heard it. It's one of those things like I don't have that level, but like working with like that's why I love creative people so much. I'm sure you and I watch the documentary is like when someone comes up with a beat or someone writes a song or someone I'm just like, how do you like your mind works? How?
Ron Rapatalo:Pharrell, how does your brain work? This is fascinating. How do you?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:There's a there's a there's a real going around Instagram about Babyface, which he like, there's all the songs that he wrote is essentially like a whole life part of my life. I saw
Ron Rapatalo:I was like,
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:that one too. That one too. Yeah. That one too? Yes.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Okay, baby face. Where I I wanna I just wanna be a fly on the wall, and I wanna just, like, watch you do your magic. Like, it it was amazing. So, anyway, yes, I love we love creatives because they can do it. They can do it.
Ron Rapatalo:So, Amirah, what's your Ronderings? What's the lesson or value you wanna share today?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:You know, I think I've been thinking about this wonderful question, and I keep coming back to leaders because whether it's I see the commonality between they're running a business or they have, you know, they're running a business or in some situations they're not. They're responsible for a school or an education or nonprofit, whatever it is. Leaders need safe rooms. Leaders need to feel safe. And I don't necessarily see that.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And every strong leader needs a space where they don't have to be strong. You know, I do my coaching, they can do mentorship, but these things to me for leaders are not luxuries. They're protection. A leader needs a You're blowing
Ron Rapatalo:my fucking mind with this statement. People are
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:high level. Like, they need a space to process, honestly. They need to be able to lead with integrity and less fear. I just think that they need those safe rooms. Created like I obviously everything on Zoom now.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:New Zoom, duh duh duh. But I do voice memos a lot now with clients where I'm like, just voice memo me. Just like, like, just do it because you're in the room. And it's funny how many times I hear the, Hey, I'm here. It's like, they're in a closet in their office.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Right. Or it's like, Oh my God, had an issue with blah, blah, And the CEO wants to figure out what the heck could you do? And I need to respond to his email. I'm like, you leaders, maybe they don't need it. They deserve a safe room.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:And they need that. And I think that anyone outside of a corporate business structure, I think about creatives. I think that think babyface, Kanye, Jay Z, Steph Curry, I'm gonna go there, you know me.
Ron Rapatalo:I was about to go with the Warriors and like, when you think like one of the teams who I think have created such an incredible culture, Steve, her, you know, the the ownership, you know, what's his name? The former, like, GM for all those years. Right? But then you got Dre, you got Steph, you have, know, players both, you know, you know, you're talking about Iggy. I mean, there are so many, like, yeah, folks who, added to that culture as a place that's like this place you play hard, but, like, I'm sure there's probably all kinds of stories about, like, where how they created safety for each other to, like, be able to say that
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:you have to. You have to. And so when I see those, when I see people, leaders that people recognize the names, I'm just giving names that are recognizable, not that I they're amazing people that are guarantee you that they have safe rooms. Generally, when you're at that level, you you can see when people don't have safe rooms and you can see when people do by their outcome, how they lead. That's why they're kind of in there.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:People need that. And so it's no mystery. You don't have to be a millionaire or billionaire if you have the job to be a leader, leader of a home. Think about a lot of mothers. I have a lot of women clients too.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Right? Like you are a leader. You need a safe room, not a luxury requirement. Build it. Hire the right people.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Structure it for yourself so that you can be more honest. You can live with courage, integrity and less fear.
Ron Rapatalo:So, Amirah, how do people find you? What would you like to promote?
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I mean, you can find me on my website, growscaledevelop.com. I mean, I'm generally on LinkedIn a lot. So, of course, I'm happy people could just generally people DM me. And that's always fun for people to find you there. But brosecaldevelop.com is where I go.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I actually have two newsletters. One, if you want more like business advice and leadership, you know, on my website. But I also have one that's a little more personal, which I find it to be interesting. You'll probably appreciate this. And I bet a subset.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:With Amirah, it's going lead with Amirah. And it is the one, of course, because I talk honestly about professional and personal and learn some lessons, gets the highest open rate. And when I send it out, it's like, questions or hey, or just brings connection. So highly recommend, you know, wherever you want. If you want to meet me there on LinkedIn, Substack, growthscaledevelop.com, you
Ron Rapatalo:can find it there. It's all there. I love that. I think required reading to check out Amirah's two newsletters. I've read your stuff, and it I I learn something every time I read your stuff and feel like I get to know you even better.
Ron Rapatalo:And I think that's a part of the hook. Right? People forget, like, you have to in this attention economy, you have to figure out what part of you are you willing to share so people will wanna respond to you. It just cannot be sell, sell, sell, business, business, business. It doesn't work like that anymore.
Ron Rapatalo:I mean, well, you can do it. I'm just
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:saying as a leader, right? You have to make the choice to do what was right for you. For me, the choice was Yeah. If you wanna put someone in your trusted circle, you need to know who they are. And so I'm sharing who I am and it requires vulnerability, you know, to write that.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:I do need space. I need space. I have a deadline to get one at end of the month and I need space so I can really process and think about the things I want to share and be very honest with the people that I want to talk to. So thank you so much, Ron, for allowing me to be
Ron Rapatalo:here Thank with you, Amirah. In the words of one of my sports heroes, I end every Ronderings episode with the words of the great Deion Sanders. We always come in hot with guests like Amirah Raveneau-Bey. Peace y'all.
Amirah Raveneau-Bey:Fam,
Ron Rapatalo:I'm so appreciative to have Amirah on this episode. If you didn't feel that in your spirit, go back and run it again. Because what Amirah just gave us wasn't just strategy, it was soul. She reminds us that revenue is rooted in relationships. Clarity is the leader's greatest gift.
Ron Rapatalo:And emotional regulation is not an accessory, it is the job. Her stories from her family's entrepreneurial lineage to the Broadway pit to her years inside major tech companies all point to one truth. Leaders grow companies only at the pace they grow themselves. One of my favorite lines from her today, rest isn't a reward, it's a requirement. Let that sit with you.
Ron Rapatalo:Let that shape how you show for your team, for your work, and for yourself. You can find Amirah at growscaledevelop.com. Definitely sign up for her newsletters. She writes of the kind of vulnerability that leaders pretend they don't need, but absolutely do. And as always, thank you for being here, choosing depth, choosing curiosity.
Ron Rapatalo:I'll see you in the next Ronderings. Peace. Before we wrap, I've gotta give a huge shout out to the crew that helps make Ronderings come alive every week, podcasts that matter. Their mission, simple but powerful. Every great idea deserves a voice.
Ron Rapatalo:So if you've been sitting on that spark of a show or story, don't overthink it. Just start. Head to podcastmatter.com, and let their team bring your vision to life. Till next time. Keep pondering.
Ron Rapatalo:Keep growing. Keep sharing your voice with the world. Peace. Thank you for listening to today's Ronderings. I enjoyed hanging out with me and my guests, and I hope you leave with something worth chewing on.
Ron Rapatalo:If it made you smile, think, or even roll your eyes in a good way, pass it along to someone else. I'm Ron Rapatalo, and until next time, keep rondering, keep laughing, and keep becoming.
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