Episode 95
· 51:17
What's up? I'm Ron Rapatalo, and this is the Ronderings podcast. Around here, I sit down with guests for real, unpolished conversations about the lessons and values that shaped them. And I'll be right there with you, sharing my own take, laughing at myself when I need to, and wondering out loud about this messy thing called life. Glad you pulled up a chair.
Ron Rapatalo:Let's get into it. Welcome back to Ronderings, where we explore the lived wisdom, the hard won lessons, and the soul level commitments of leaders who are building something bigger than themselves. Today's guest, I'm sitting down with Shawna Wells, educator, a leader, a builder, but at our core, a generational ist, someone who spends her whole life thinking across timelines, past, present, future, making decisions with the people coming behind her in mind. You're gonna hear the origin story that lit this fire at just 10 years old, triathlete who anchored relays because she refused to drop the ball for the three people running before her. The granddaughter shaped by a woman who offered her home to hundreds.
Ron Rapatalo:Shawna challenges us to rethink legacy, not as something you leave after you're gone, but something you live right now. Every choice, every room, every interaction. So buckle in. This conversation is soul food, leadership coaching, and a generational wake up call all at once. Let's get into it.
Ron Rapatalo:Hey. I'm putting together a book with about 10 to 12 people who are tired of how leadership gets talked about, lived out right now, actually wanna say something real about it. It's called leadership in a time of chaos. I'm not trying to make money off it, just covering costs. If you got a perspective, a story, or something you feel needs to be said, hit me up.
Ron Rapatalo:Love to have you be one of the voices in it. Ronderings Universe. So I met Shawna Wells for the first time as I've had a number of guests in the Education Leaders of Color family doing Boulder Fund final selection in Phoenix, Arizona seven years ago. And surprise surprise, Shawna and I hit it off. You would have thought we had interviewed for, like, twenty years together.
Ron Rapatalo:Like, I think it was one of those experiences I have to say, Shawna, and we've debriefed about it both then and after. It was like this energetic, like, intuition of, like, knowing how we wanted to divvy things up in interviewing these amazing, bolder, fun finalists, which I think has really then become, when we had the opportunity to catch up in person and virtually, very much at the heartbeat of our friendship and a professional relationship. You just we just kinda know where to go. Yeah. So Shawna Wells is on the mic.
Ron Rapatalo:How are you doing this morning?
Shawna Wells:I'm so good. I know. I'm dude, it's like been a whole day. It's been a whole It's it's been all two years. One day.
Shawna Wells:It's good. It's December. It's how it goes. I'm doing great. Thank you for having me on the podcast, Sam, for such a kind introduction.
Shawna Wells:I agree. We we had a lot to say as we met each other. So
Ron Rapatalo:I'm honored. Those personal anecdotes matter. Right? Because I think, like you, the people that we choose to be in our lives and certainly the way I think about the people I choose to be on this podcast, there is, believe it or not well, you don't you would you would understand this. There's a lot of kind of, like, assessment and methodology that I think about.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? But if I put it simply put, we have a great vibe.
Shawna Wells:I agree.
Ron Rapatalo:What matters to me most because I don't want I don't want no boring ass guests. I'm sorry. I don't. If you're boring, you could be doing great work. You not coming on Ronderings.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm sorry.
Shawna Wells:I know. You gotta go.
Ron Rapatalo:What title you have. Nah.
Shawna Wells:Jokes. You gotta You gotta if I'm correct.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? This is not a career resume podcast. This is not for you to, like, not, like, show some parts of yourself that you may not otherwise show in other interviews. So with all that said, Shawna, let's get right to it. What is your story?
Shawna Wells:I know. I was like, what start? What where do I wanna start?
Ron Rapatalo:So I'm gonna
Shawna Wells:start I was like, ah, where can I start? So I'll with this, is that I am speaking of titles, I'm a generationalist,
Ron Rapatalo:which
Shawna Wells:I believe in the power of our footprint in the world and how it relates to the generation we are in, the one that came before us and the ones that we have yet to meet. And so I was like, how am I gonna tell my story? So here it is. When I was 10, I fell off my bike. And I I lived in a townhouse in the Northeast Of Philadelphia.
Shawna Wells:Okay. And I fell off my bike on the sidewalk. And these, this car drove by, and there were two men in the front seat. And I had fallen. And, you know, I don't know.
Shawna Wells:It was a big fall. I have no idea. In my mind, it's now become the biggest fall of my life.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:And these two men saw me fall.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:They were in the car, and they kept driving. And I picked up my bike, and I walked home, and I was crying, you know, I was just like so sad. I don't know. I probably did not have a scratch on me, Ron, honestly. And I walk in my house and I'm greeted by my mom.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:And she sees me crying and she's like, what happened? What's wrong? And I started telling the story and in my, you know how you can feel like even if people aren't rolling their eyes at you, she was rolling her eyes at me.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:Because she's like, I don't see any blood. Like this is not, you know, I'm like half Italian, half black. Like, we don't have like this isn't like she's like, you don't have any scratches. Keep it moving. These are not real problems.
Shawna Wells:Know?
Ron Rapatalo:Right.
Shawna Wells:And she's like, well, what are you so upset about? Which is the right question.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes.
Shawna Wells:And I said, mom, they didn't ask me if I was okay. And they were older than me. And I think when I'm an adult, what I'm gonna do is make sure that the people coming behind me are okay.
Ron Rapatalo:Wow. 10, you said that. 10.
Shawna Wells:And I that wasn't me speaking. Like, I'm pretty sure the A and Sisters came from wherever they came from and right? But I've had this that's my story. Right? This is like, I've had the, you call it a calling, call it an intention, call it an obligation, whatever it is.
Shawna Wells:I am unable to see the world as disconnected. I can only see it as timelines with striations that deeply connect to the people who came before us for better or for worse, and the people who are coming after us. I'm incapable. If there's another way to see it, this is not the place where you're gonna change my perspective. It's of something else, right?
Shawna Wells:At ten, I said that. At twenty, I keep saying it. It's why I went into school leadership. It's why I run my company now. It's why I do leadership development and management work.
Shawna Wells:It's why I raise my children. It's it's really deeply intentional for me.
Ron Rapatalo:So I'm curious about the journey of deepening your consciousness on being this generationalist, right? Because I think when you and I were in our green room conversation, right, I think both you and I are incredibly spiritual, intuitive people who yet live very much in the present but see our collective worlds as ones that are so unified that things that happen probably very externally to us pain us more than usual. That instance of being 10 and your mom's reaction, but then asking what upset you, it came from something deeper than anything physically can harm you with.
Shawna Wells:Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:So I'm curious if you can outline some of these moments of how you deepen this idea of being a generationalist, because I would argue in my head you had already known. It was just like, what were the moments and things you created or stumbled upon that allowed you to bring this idea into consciousness?
Shawna Wells:Yeah. It's such an interesting question. I'm like, okay. Well, what were those moments? I mean, I think they're big and small.
Shawna Wells:Right? Like, world shape and evolve based on what we're surrounded by. And so the first thing that pops in my head, I'm like, you know me, Like, I'm nothing if not candid. I'm like, Oprah. Like, here's a woman who used her platform, not in the beginning, right?
Shawna Wells:But used her platform to have the types of conversations that move hearts and minds and emotions. And that's how I understand humanity, right? It's like, we are all just a bunch of hearts, minds, habits wrapped up in a physical form. And so there's Oprah. Right?
Shawna Wells:There's, like, running track and having a responsibility of being the anchor leg and knowing that there were three people in before you, And this race is not yours. It's theirs. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:So were you running the 100, 200, 400, all three? What track did you run to be the anchor? The one. The two. The oh my god.
Shawna Wells:Four and the four by four.
Ron Rapatalo:Oh, my Lord Jesus.
Shawna Wells:My coach one time was like, would you run the 800? And I was like, catch me outside, dude. No. Like, that is the wildest race. Like, props to people who run the 800.
Shawna Wells:I wasn't above I was not going above the 400. So I was a sprinter. And, you know, so many lessons on it, like so many lessons on the track. Before that, I played basketball. But there comes a point where you gotta choose.
Shawna Wells:And so I chose track, but
Ron Rapatalo:yeah.
Shawna Wells:So, there's the runner piece of me. There's obviously the elders who came before me, my grandmother on my dad's side, just like is such a generational being that I think there are all these fingerprints of people that have come before me that have said, am also a generationalist. That's not what they call it. Like that is a you know, everything has a everything has a term now. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:My grandmother, like, she moved from Witsumka, Alabama to Hamilton, Ohio and did so for her and her family, but then said, like, and we're gonna open our doors to anybody else who wants to come, you know, who wants to come north. And, ultimately, she housed hundreds of people and impacted thousands of lives all because she made one decision, right? And so I just think I've had the great honor of being surrounded by people who think beyond themselves and realize they're sandwiched in between two generations, which we are, right? We represent ourselves and we carry the next generation with us and the last one. So in those early times and then what beautiful examples I've had and leaders I've been able to work alongside.
Shawna Wells:I mean, the work of education is is generational work. Yeah. And then you retire as we run our company and started to work with more leaders in social impact. Mhmm. That's just as continued to be true.
Shawna Wells:It's like, we make the choice to do better because we believe that the people coming behind us deserve better.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. So I'm curious. Right? Because you and I met through education circles, and yet I would say both how you and I manifest in this world, we're very deeply connected, Kate Tolved. I will argue I will say for it for me.
Ron Rapatalo:I don't want presume you feel this way. I don't see myself solely as a K12 ed person. Never have. Never would. It's just an identity thing.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? And I don't like being put in a box. But I'm curious as you move through the world of education, how did you weave being a generationalist inside of that sector, which I would argue is not built for generationalists, to be clear?
Shawna Wells:Yeah. I don't know. I think it might be. I so I, I started my work in education for sure. I started as a teacher.
Shawna Wells:I I really, like, did not I don't know. People have like such beautiful stories about why they say they want to be something. Yeah. I had no idea why I chose teaching. I just was like, that's what I want to do.
Shawna Wells:And I went and taught. I taught in Las Vegas, which is where I live now. I ran a school, opened a school, trained leaders, have worked across the country alongside leaders to build and scale their organizations. I don't like whatever. We can talk about the resume another time.
Shawna Wells:But Yeah. The reason I share all of that is because what I learned in that space is there's this deep conversation that I think is happening inside of every classroom that's designed for kids. And I think most teachers are trying their best to do what they can do on behalf of the next generation. Right? Yep.
Shawna Wells:I think it's the most one of the most honorable professions that you can decide to do.
Ron Rapatalo:Amen.
Shawna Wells:And this was my first foray into being a real professional. And to to speak with people who have who have said, I've chosen this path for the last five years, ten years, fifteen years. And I've chosen to do it because every year I get a new group of students, and the first day of school is the most incredible thing.
Ron Rapatalo:Uh-huh. And
Shawna Wells:I teach them the best I know how. And and, like, let me say this out loud. I don't think America's schools are doing as well as we need them to do. And the humans inside of classrooms every single day are doing the best they can with what they've got. Yeah.
Shawna Wells:I believe that. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:I amen. Believe that too.
Shawna Wells:And so how did I do it? I think we're surrounded by people who believe in this. If we can if we can get this one thing right, if we can teach our kids well, then the next generation is gonna be set up for success, and we're gonna continue the cycle of success. Now there are things that we have gotten wrong, and we all need to sit down and talk about those things. I'm not blaming anybody.
Shawna Wells:It is a very hard thing to educate a society. Right? Yeah. And it's time it's like time for us to have a different kind of conversation. Mhmm.
Shawna Wells:Now over time, we've chosen to, like, expand, go beyond the work of education because there are so many other people who are generationalists that we just knew could benefit from the conversation around legacy and playing and creating and creating the world that we all hope our children inherit, that it was it felt too narrow to stay inside of education. So And we we had no other choice but to expand. Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:And so I'm deeply grateful for my roots in education. I'm also deeply grateful that now I'm a business owner that gets to impact everybody from corporate, the health, to wellness to government to, like, the water reclamation center. I mean, all of this, we exist for the next group. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. So I'm glad, you know, the that I had in you describing that being a general relationalist can exist in K-twelve ed is the very nature of a teacher education, every year they get a new class of students. And that very element, unless you're moving up with the same group of kids, which doesn't happen as often in K-twelve ed these days, that in of itself is having to, in a microcosm, teach a new generation, even if they're a year apart. And so I didn't that makes so much sense to me, the very of that part of the unit of k twelve education that if thought about in that way can really have educators really be inherently generationalist because of the very nature of what they're doing year over year.
Shawna Wells:Yeah. What do you think of this concept, though? Like, what how how do you reconcile it, or what do you think about?
Ron Rapatalo:I think if there there's a I almost think about it as a technical turnover, was kind of like, I don't think that's why I saw it. Because when I think of being a generationalist, what you said around the creation of humanity hearts, mindsets, values is that I often get cynical at times not all the time, but at times on the very nature of our system of K-twelve public education. And even if the want of an individual educator is to be a generationalist, I don't believe the system of public education, except in some pockets, has been created with the idea of being gener of being a generationalist. Right? I think that, yes, there's a technical turnover that allows one the opportunity to think as such, but what does the system demand of educators from teachers to paras to to the deans, the principals, the central office administrators, the superintendents that allows for them despite what I would pro I would say on the cover of The New York Times, I don't believe public education is there to create, like, generationless thinking.
Ron Rapatalo:And yet there are pieces there that can allow for why so many educators come into the system to allow for general malicious thinking to happen because the very nature of teaching our youth should be generationalist. Yeah. In principle.
Shawna Wells:Yes. In principle. Yeah. Yeah. No.
Shawna Wells:It's it's a this is you bring up such an interesting point because our schools were not created for everybody. Right? We know we know that a fact. Right? Yes.
Shawna Wells:Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Yes.
Shawna Wells:They were not created for that. Right? And so and yet we've been educating our children since humans have been humaning. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:And Right.
Shawna Wells:And so has every other species. Right? We teach our children and those coming after us the habits, the ways of being, all the things that are gonna allow them to survive and hopefully thrive. And that could happen around a campfire. Mhmm.
Shawna Wells:That could happen around a boombox. That could happen
Ron Rapatalo:in a stoop
Shawna Wells:in Philly. Like Mhmm. Yep. We we've trusted that this that I mean, we're always learning. Right?
Shawna Wells:So we've trusted that there's one system that can take care of all of it, and it just that's like such a wildly inaccurate idea, right? And so schools have not the origin story of schools were not to take care of everybody. That's not what they were designed for. We're asking that system to do something differently than what it's been designed for. But the unit like, you ask any kid, you ask any adult.
Shawna Wells:When you were in school, what was the most meaningful thing? It always goes back to the individual unit, a teacher or a coach. Like, that's the unit. Right? And so Mhmm.
Shawna Wells:That's how I think about it. It's like
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:How might we design places for us to be generationalists inside or outside of institutions, because I think that's our obligation as this generation. Anyway, that is a key question we must answer.
Ron Rapatalo:Quick thing. There's a referral only mastermind happening for speakers that matter, and I get to send a few impact driven people their way. I'm being pretty intentional though. I'm not just sending anybody. This is one of those webinar situations where you leave with a few notes and move on.
Ron Rapatalo:People serious about getting clear on their message and actually putting it out into the world. That sounds like you, hit me up or check out speakersthatmatter.com. Tell them I sent you. Yeah. So I wanna start getting into that with you because I'm curious as you have, you know, built your company to do this generationalist slash legacy work.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm curious, like, what you've learned is the threads that sort of unify the approach across all these different EdCs you're working across. Right? From, you know, education, social impact, corporate America, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And so talk to me and the audience about that because I'm really fascinated about this.
Shawna Wells:Yeah. Yeah. What I hear in your question is like, what is literally happening?
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:You're you're talking about so the first place we should start is, like, the definition of legacy. So what is your definition of legacy?
Ron Rapatalo:Mine. The impact that I have for as long as I'm on my human body that lives beyond
Shawna Wells:me. Okay. Yeah. So if you were to look up on the Google Yeah. Legacy on the googs
Ron Rapatalo:Yes.
Shawna Wells:What would you would find that it is it is a the definition is really monitor monetary. It's like a will, an estate plan.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:And, like, I don't know about you, Ron, but I have not inherited a dollar from my family. That's not a slate. Thank you, family. I'm very grateful for you. But I have inherited a lot from them.
Ron Rapatalo:Amen. Yes.
Shawna Wells:Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Same. And so
Shawna Wells:this is the first agitation. It's like the way we define legacy is like a building, a stool, an estate. It's all connected to money. And, like, listen. Money makes the world go round.
Shawna Wells:We all have to pay for things. We can talk about capitalism on the next podcast.
Ron Rapatalo:Right.
Shawna Wells:What I'm saying is when you're alive, you're leaving a legacy. Most people think legacy is about dying. We position it as, listen, it's about living. And so then if you take that and what you decide what you said and what we leave behind, The real question on legacy is what are you making possible? Are you making it easier or harder for the people coming after you to live lives by their own design?
Shawna Wells:And that's the question we ask inside of organizations. And what we talk about is like, are you in alignment on what the impact is that you're supposed to be out here making? And if you are, what are the conditions you put in place? How do you know you're effective? And what are the structures you need?
Shawna Wells:And if we can agree on those things, then impact becomes greater because we're all aligned around this organizational legacy we're leaving, which isn't just next year or the net through the next strategic plan. It's two hundred years from now. We ask them to I haven't done our years from now. What's different? Because you were here.
Shawna Wells:And the same is true in our personal legacy work. Are you living the life that aligns to the impact you said you wanted to make? Because we have a finite amount of time. And so if that's true, then every choice we make literally, what we choose to eat consistently for breakfast, how we choose to care for each other, whether or not I look you in the eye, whether or not I'm exhausted all the time when I'm in your check-in meeting or with a with a kid, That's my legacy. It's too late.
Shawna Wells:It's too late once you're gone. Right? Like,
Ron Rapatalo:it's Yeah.
Shawna Wells:On that last day, all of the ways that people are gonna storytell are gonna be all of the ways in which you engage with them throughout the course of your life. Full stop. Yeah. So if that's true, then we ought to be making decisions now that align with the legacy we say we aim to live and leave both inside of our organizations and as people.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. Thanks for that push there because it reminds me of something. If I go back to my favorite musical ever, you know, there's suspect to Les Mis because Les Mis for a long time was my favorite musical till Hamilton came on Broadway. Right? So who lives, who dies, who tells your
Shawna Wells:your story? Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:And we do not need to wait till we die to have our story told. Right? And so this just comes full circle, I think, in terms of, like, it it it like, as I kind of, like, do a meta reflection, like, I I think it's so ingrained for me that my legacy will be something that happens after I die. They're like, wait a second. No, no, wait.
Ron Rapatalo:Time out, Ron Rapatalo. Your actual systems, this very fucking podcast is you having stories told as a way of, like, building legacy while you live. Yeah. I'm seeing the commonality of the stories of amazing people like you through this podcast. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:That's one of the legacies I'm currently building as we speak because that matters so much to me is that I'm sick and tired of people saying we don't have shit in common because I'm just like that is fundamentally false to me. It makes no sense to me in my lived experience because I've lived in places, and you and I have been able to interact with people. You and I are probably, like, one of the, like, one of the many people that walk this planet can walk into an Uber drop like, take an Uber and have the driver tell us their life story. It happens to me so frequently. My kids hate it.
Ron Rapatalo:Like, dad, where's everybody your best friend, dad? We gotta tell everybody everything. Why everybody gonna oh my god. Sorry. It's like, I can't turn it off.
Ron Rapatalo:It's like
Shawna Wells:I know. Right? Plus it's like, this is like what dads do. But until you see this because I would come home. I travel a lot for work.
Ron Rapatalo:Yep.
Shawna Wells:It's an honor. And I would come home from traveling and this was not this is before Uber.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:I would come home from traveling, like arranged a cab, whatever. Uh-huh. Partner would be like, did you get their phone number? And I'm like,
Ron Rapatalo:I did. He's like, you have got
Shawna Wells:to stop. Like, I would go and he's like, it is not normal. How many he would be like, you know, if you were the taxi, it's like, Ron, taxi, Memphis. Like, that's something I would be saved on my phone. He's like, this is you have got to stop.
Shawna Wells:Like, this is not okay.
Ron Rapatalo:I yeah. I had an Uber driver who just picked us up this afternoon who remembered riding me with my girls. He's like, chicken tacos. I'm like, oh my god. And then, of course, right, because the missus, before she left for work, did a big Costco order, which had chicken tacos, which my daughters had for dinner last night and lunch today.
Ron Rapatalo:And so the fact that my Uber's like, this is, like, the synchronicity of the damn universe in play. Like, my Uber driver was a repeat driver. Remember, Chad's like, holy shit. That's right. We talked.
Ron Rapatalo:And now I'm gonna remember him forever and then remember him, like, he's now come back from living in Jersey to take care of this ailing father here in New Jersey and, like, all the I'm just like
Shawna Wells:it's But you never you also never know. Right? Like, because the stories we hear shape us. So Yeah. It it's even, like, you don't you what there's some gems.
Shawna Wells:There were some gems in that conversation that then shaped and rewired the way in which you see the world, even if just for a moment. And we forget about the interconnectivity of all of that, that really moves. It's what makes us human, You know?
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. So what does it look like to start shifting any organization's culture to start thinking and being generationless?
Shawna Wells:Yeah. No. It's a it's such a it's such a it's one of my favorite questions, obviously, because I spend all day doing it. But Yeah. Right.
Shawna Wells:It better be. Right? So the first thing is to figure out what everybody thinks the organization is out here doing. And and I say that with a lot of love because I've been part of several I've been part of several amazing organizations. And I would say on our best days, we only, like, 80% understood what we were all actually working towards.
Shawna Wells:But what I often say to leadership teams, because we predominantly work with leadership teams, is like, y'all carry each other wherever you go. And so if that's true, then one, you have a personal legacy, but this organization has a legacy that you've decided to devote your time, energy, resource, and talent to in this moment in time, for this moment in time. A year from now, could come back, and you might have decided to do differently. But for this moment in time, the way to impact and the way to generational change is for you all to agree on what is the actual generational change making. So for those of the for those of your listeners who are listening, like, I would I would encourage you to grapple with that question inside of your organization.
Shawna Wells:If you said, what is the impact of our work a hundred and forty years from now to your entire leadership team? Would you all have a similar answer? Doesn't have to be the same. Would you all have a similar answer? Because if you all have a similar answer, high five.
Shawna Wells:Like, that's part of the battle is just being able to say, this is what we're out here doing. And then, and this might become like, when I say this to people, they're like, oh, then you're aligned on that. Everything else comes out of that. How you have your leadership team, who you promote, how you develop your leaders, what your check ins look like, all of your goals, how you have fun together, what your rituals are, whether or not you have fun together. Like all of that stuff needs to derive from a agreed upon point.
Shawna Wells:Otherwise, y'all are y'all are, like, on Google Maps going a ton of different directions.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:That's the place to start. There's all you know, I could geek out on this for a minute.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. Yeah. So where my mind started going is you and I, obviously, in your work and my work, we're talking to lots of senior leaders and leadership teams. If I overlay particularly these last eighteen months on organizations and narrow it to social impact for a second, right, we know that social impact leaders and organizations are under tremendous pressure.
Shawna Wells:Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:They always have been.
Shawna Wells:But considering I will call
Ron Rapatalo:it out because I like to speak politics explicitly. The federal government's attempts to basically create an authoritarian society are under our midst. And so what social impact organizations and leaders have to undergo, I think, is they feel threatened. Yeah. How do you advise social impact organizations and leaders to think about generational legacy when they feel like, I don't know if we gonna exist six months from now, Shawna?
Shawna Wells:So I would take us back to, the nineteen sixties civil rights movement.
Ron Rapatalo:I knew you were gonna go back in time. Okay. Some of it was like, I've answered my own question in my head, but I know Shawna's gonna lay ahead because she's she's the she's the guest. So she gotta answer.
Shawna Wells:You know, it's it's like, I would say, because, like, this is a and and even we can keep going further back. Of
Ron Rapatalo:course. Yeah.
Shawna Wells:You know, everybody has a queen. Mine happens to be Harriet Tubman and Whitney Houston, but, you know, yes. But with this, like, that's in a whole another podcast. But Yeah. I think what we have to do is reconcile that we are in a timeline, and the timelines have never been linear.
Shawna Wells:Right? There are highs and lows, there are ups and downs. Getting committed to an organizational legacy is actually part of the antidote to being overly responsive in this moment. And what do I mean by that? If we don't make it through because we're exhausted, we're tired, if we don't make it through, the causes then that we carry will not either.
Shawna Wells:And so what I like to point out is like Rosa Parks was also a yogi. She used her body and her mind and her spirit to resist. Became comfortable with resistance. Right? Those of you who would join me on a yoga mat, lean into the discomfort is what my yoga teacher says.
Shawna Wells:Right? And so part of it is
Ron Rapatalo:All the time. My god. Yes.
Shawna Wells:Like, this is not we are not in this to solve it in this generation. We are in it to do our part. And so it is pressure filled. We all like, we're all asking questions like, can I do this? How long can I do this?
Shawna Wells:What's the fight? What's my intention? What's my purpose? And like having a personal legacy and then an organizational legacy to go back to and say, this is what we said we were about and what we said we would do with and for the generation coming behind us, coming in front of us, behind us, behind us, on behalf of the organization that came before us, then we get to, like, put ourselves squarely in the. And there's something about that that helps us all understand, like, oh, this was not we are not gonna solve our causes overnight, and it's not gonna be without fight.
Shawna Wells:And so like I say to my partner every morning, like, I show up and decide, and I recommit every morning. And, like, that's what we all that's what we all got. So I can't take the pressure away. I can't take the front like, I cannot I feel the same acute pressure in this existence. And We gotta keep going.
Shawna Wells:Like, what is the other
Ron Rapatalo:Turtle up and hope for the best, which is doesn't feel very empowering by any stretch of the imagination. So yeah.
Shawna Wells:I know you don't mean this to say, like because I think I think I'm not I'm not Pollyanna. Right? Like, I'm not I'm not, like, just right? Some days I'm like, I don't even believe in hope. Right?
Shawna Wells:But, like, I do think if we can step back and put in perspective what we are holding, what we are meant to move forward, and what we can do together on behalf of the one legacy we're supposed to leave and the group legacy that everyone is supposed to leave, I think it starts to make more sense. And that's what we end up seeing inside of organizations. It's just like, oh, yeah. This ours to carry, and there's somebody down the street who's carrying this other thing. We're gonna, like, move this whole thing forward together.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. I'm wondering, is any of your organization's work, Shawna, centered on having these different organizations come together to see how their generations their their legacies intertwine? Because for me, I it started it it reminded me of, like, reading, Adrian Marie Brown's book. Yes. Like, this feels very much like, wait a second.
Ron Rapatalo:If you have these like, there's so much opportunity to say, wait a second. We're gonna be better off when we intertwine our legacies together because we are stronger together than we are just having these individual legacies as organizations that don't talk to each other.
Shawna Wells:Yeah. Right. Preach on that. Right? Like, the more
Ron Rapatalo:Shit.
Shawna Wells:I'm like, dude. Right? Like collective collective spirit around legacy is only compounds impact.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:When we start like clawing for, you know, funding, space, relevance, it's all built into the system. There's some elements of that. Again, I'm not polyhunter. We got it like there are some things that in order to exist inside this, we have to come into contact with. And if we could just ask ourselves, how might I work with the person next to me to get the legacy forward?
Shawna Wells:We might be able to go further. And so I'll give you an example. We do this fellowship here in Las Vegas. It's an honor, a partnership with Nevada Grant Lab. Shout out to y'all and the Raiders.
Shawna Wells:And they're investing in 10 nonprofit leaders in the city. And the the key question we he we bring to them is like, we believe in your work individually. What how might you collectively have a conversation about the impact you're working to make and help each other out? What does that look like to do that with strategy? And we spend a year thinking about that question.
Shawna Wells:And two things are true. One, we don't really know how to do that because we spent years doing group projects where somebody just takes it all. Right? But two, there are so many pieces of connectivity that if we just had the time to step back and say, what's the impact we're trying to make? And then what are what are all of the resource partners that we have and the partner and the the collaboration partners we have that could make it possible?
Shawna Wells:And what would it take for me to actually ask them? We would be better off. And so, like, just a small example.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:We asked this question, and there are two organizations that do the exact same thing across town.
Ron Rapatalo:Oh, wow. And
Shawna Wells:one of them said, I need space in this side of town. And the other one said, I need space in this side of town. Well, what do they have? They both have buildings and they both have audiences. Great.
Shawna Wells:Yeah. So now we're working in partnership together. Not at odds.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Shawna Wells:In partnership.
Ron Rapatalo:Yep.
Shawna Wells:More people are being fed because they decided we're about the same impact.
Ron Rapatalo:Alright. Check this out. Quick aside. If you're sitting on an idea, a message, or something you know matters that you haven't quite figured out how to get it out into the world, there's someone I'm gonna hook you up with. Dr.
Ron Rapatalo:Kent. He's one of those people who really thinks with people, not just advice from the sidelines. It's kind of his thing. Think about having a Clive Davis in your life. Check him out at talktokent.com.
Ron Rapatalo:You know, I had a a thought bubble come up in my head that if we redesign cohort based models because, you know, social impact in k 12 loves a cohort. We do. We love there's a lot of cohorts. If we were to redesign cohorts with this approach around partnership and legacy and being generationalist? Because I would argue that the very nature of cohorts is built on, yes, people are in a group, but collectively seeing how they they can come together, maybe as individuals, but not as organizations.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? Because what like, we can name all the cohorts. Like, yes, people might be representing their org. They're really kind of representing themselves in these cohorts. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:And so I I'm I'm curious, right, just to kind of, like, riff on this with you. Right? If you were a task, Shawna, someone came to you and said, you know what? Shawna, I'm x y z organization. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:We can name some of the big ones that might even be thinking about this, right, where there'd be the money. Said, I want you to come in and start and figure out who would the people need to be in this room. It's like, redesign these different cohort models that exist. Let's let's stick with k 12 educate. You and I both know that space well.
Ron Rapatalo:How would we redesign these cohort models to have generational legacy as the centerpiece of their work?
Shawna Wells:Well, I would answer with we're already doing it. So that's cool. So I think but to get to the core of what you're asking, which is like, well, what are the component parts of that? Yeah. This fellowship that I just talked about is called the Align Fellowship here in Las Vegas.
Shawna Wells:And, again, the two really incredible organizations, Nevada Grant Lab and the Raiders, came together to say, let's, like, let's build this thing for now.
Ron Rapatalo:To Tom Brady. Right?
Shawna Wells:Uh-oh. Sorry. I said a dirty I said, like, a dirty word on the podcast. I don't know. But Yeah.
Shawna Wells:You know, when you do good, know, you gotta
Ron Rapatalo:now. Hey now.
Shawna Wells:This this this group of people came together with the idea of, like, we make impact in this city. And I I think Las Vegas is one of the places that taught me the most about possibility. And the the thing that people don't know really about Las Vegas is it's like, it's basically an island. And we are surrounded by mountains, and for miles, for hundreds of miles, there is no one coming. The if right?
Shawna Wells:And so we are dependent on ourselves to really create and shape the existence of the people who live here. And yes, people do live here. We have Paneras and Starbucks. Like okay. So now that we're past that, so I think like, so first of all, it's it's the energy to really bring that conversation to the table.
Shawna Wells:What does it mean to make impact together, and what does it mean to build legacy together? And so, like, two organizations come together and put their heads together, unlikely friends. Right? And then we pick 10 fellows who are really thinking about, who am I as a leader and what does that mean for the city that I live in? And I will say that they are these are proximate leaders, people who are doing work inside of the city and are able to touch and feel each other's causes.
Shawna Wells:And then you start asking them the questions. What's your personal legacy? What's your origin story? What do you care about? No.
Shawna Wells:Really, what do you care about?
Ron Rapatalo:And what are
Shawna Wells:the things that you're ready to let somebody else pick up and you put down so that you can be really good and best at class at what you do? And so what did I say there? I said, one, the partner's gotta be right. Two, the willingness to have the real conversation about we are not gonna be here forever. What's the real impact we wanna make?
Shawna Wells:And then three, for people to put down their fiefdoms and be able to ask each other about the work they do and the questions that they need, answered on behalf of the
Ron Rapatalo:work they do. Well, Shawna, I can spend another three hours talking about god so god knows how many things, like, our our mutual love of Whitney Houston, right, to, you know, talking sports, to talking k 12 ed shop, to leadership, etcetera. At a cognizant of time, we're at that point. We're asking the robbering question feels really good to kind of close the circle of our time together. So what's your Ronderings?
Ron Rapatalo:What's the lesser value you wanna share today?
Shawna Wells:I think it changed. You know, I was a good student. I did my prework. But and I love going rogue, so let's do both. I think
Ron Rapatalo:You could do two. Come on.
Shawna Wells:I could do two. You know, I think there's like this we all gotta come to the agreement that there's a finite amount of time to do the work that we have come here to do and to put down the distractions. And so what is generational health? It is building yourself enough to be able to contribute to the well-being of those coming behind you. And when we can do that, I think all the things we've made important would come into question.
Shawna Wells:And some things would make it to the cutting room floor, but I think many things would not. And so my my my wondering, my Ronderings is really about like, how might we use this as a power to fuel how we live and what we do and how we savor the moments that we have with the millions of people, billions of people who we come in contact every day whether we know it or not.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. I love the reframing of, like, the finite amount of time to be able to create a path of how we my words, like, find our joy, find our purpose, like, and be able to, in your track analogy, pass the baton.
Shawna Wells:Mhmm. Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:I love that.
Shawna Wells:Don't mess up that handoff because you'll lose the race.
Ron Rapatalo:Oh, yeah. No. I've I've I've I've seen the baton to be dropped. I'm like, oh, that's brutal. Oh, or juggled.
Ron Rapatalo:Ah, makes me really uncomfortable when I watch that.
Shawna Wells:Me too. I'm uncomfortable now. I'm going to have a here, I'm going to practice with Todd. Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:Before we end our time together, Shawna, how do people find you? What would you like to promote?
Shawna Wells:Oh, goodness. Thank you for asking. What an honor to join you. Thank you for for the conversation today. So you can you can find us most most clearly on our website 7genlegacygroup.com.
Shawna Wells:You can find our upcoming master classes and you can find our most sacred space in our community, which is Living Your Legacy, which we talked about cohorts. But I would say Living Your Legacy is designed for 10 women to work in a group to think about their own legacies so that they can live them. And we call it a group and not a cohort because it's a group and it's not a cohort. And if you wanna know more about that, can find time to sit with me and talk about it. But you can find us most up to date on our website.
Shawna Wells:And Hot Author Press is right, and you're getting it. Have not even announced it our beautiful community. Don't be mad at me, beautiful community. We are gonna launch a course in early January called the Legacy Switch, which is going to be an opportunity for leaders to really think about who am I Sometimes in the halftime of my life, who am I and what's the impact I'm here to leave and what does that mean for how I design my team? And it's an incredible 24 lesson experience, and you have a executive coach to walk alongside with you.
Shawna Wells:So if you wanna check it out, we'd love to see you there, and you can find it on our website.
Ron Rapatalo:I love that, Shawna. Selfishly, I think I see myself signing up for that. So I'm already, going, check. I need to use my PD dollars for next year for something. I think that's gonna be all.
Ron Rapatalo:Yes. Yes.
Shawna Wells:Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm not only a podcast host, but I'm a future client of SevenGen Legacy Group. Come on now. Come on
Shawna Wells:we'd love to have you for sure.
Ron Rapatalo:Thank you. Well, Shawna, I'm gonna I always end these podcasts quoting one of my sports heroes who did not play for the Raiders, but played for a number of teams. The brilliant Dion Sanders.
Shawna Wells:Okay. And we
Ron Rapatalo:always we always come hot with amazing guests like Shawna Wells. Thanks, y'all. Yo. Listen up. If you weren't thinking about legacy before this episode, I know you are now.
Ron Rapatalo:Shawna Wells just dropped a whole curriculum on how to live your life in alignment with the impact you say you wanna make. Love most is a reminder, legacy isn't lofty. It's not theoretical. It's not something for wealthy folks with estate plans. Legacy is, are you making things easier or harder for the people coming behind you?
Ron Rapatalo:Are your daily choices matching that intention? Whether you're a CEO or classroom teacher, a parent, or a people manager, Shawna invites us into a new clarity where Blueprint is showing every day. If wanna explore more of her work, check out the Living Your Legacy experience or the new Legacy Switch program, which is launching in January 2026. This is leadership development for people who understand the power across generations. Shawna, thank you for your light, your conviction, and your reminder that we are all part of something far bigger than this moment.
Ron Rapatalo:Till next time, keep reflecting, keep growing, keep living a legacy worth inheriting, and keep Ronderings. Peace. By the way, podcast that matter helps make Ronderings happen. I'm crazy grateful for them. And there were some really cool things beyond just this podcast.
Ron Rapatalo:Go check them out, what they've got going on. And while you're there, check out my homie Mike Montoya's Stronger podcast too. That one should definitely be in your rotation. Thank you for listening to today's Ronderings. I enjoyed hanging out with me and my guests, and I hope you leave with something worth chewing on.
Ron Rapatalo:If it made you smile, think, or even roll your eyes in a good way, pass it along to someone else. I'm Ron Rapitalo, until next time, keep raundering, keep laughing, and keep becoming.
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