Episode 89
· 58:18
What's up? I'm Ron Rapatalo, and this is the Ronderings podcast. Around here, I sit down with guests for real, unpolished conversations about the lessons and values that shaped them. And I'll be right there with you, sharing my own take, laughing at myself when I need to, and wondering out loud about this messy thing called life. Glad you pulled up a chair.
Ron Rapatalo:Let's get into it. Welcome back to Ronderings, where we slow down to explore the lives, leadership journeys, and inner worlds of people shaping impact across education, philanthropy, and beyond. Today's conversation is with someone whose story is deeply rooted in family, loss, and purpose. Nicholas Pascale grew up in a working class Italian family in New York, parents who worked at JFK Airport, twin brother by his side, and a father who was told he had six months to live and fought leukemia for more than a decade. That early confrontation with mortality shaped everything.
Ron Rapatalo:How Nicholas leads, how he builds culture, and how he defines legacy. From special education teacher to principal, district leader, nonprofit consultant, and now corporate philanthropy at Vanguard, Nicholas has lived across sectors, but never drifted from his core belief, relationships are the only legacy that matters. We talk about reconciliation as a leisure practice, why adults must model the expectations we hold for kids, what it means to choose alignment over comfort. This one is reflective, grounding, and deeply human. Let's get into it.
Ron Rapatalo:Hey, friends. Before we get started, I wanna share something that's been a big part of my own journey. Two years ago, I published my book Leverage. That experience cracked something open for me. I saw how publishing isn't just about pages, about owning your story, sharpening your voice, and amplifying your impact.
Ron Rapatalo:The part that meant the most, readers reached out to me to say they felt seen. That's when I knew this work mattered. I loved it so much I cofounded Leverage Publishing Group with friends who would make know this world inside and out. Now we help leaders, entrepreneurs, and change makers turn their ideas into books and podcasts that actually move people. Got a star in you, and I know you do.
Ron Rapatalo:Let's chat. Find me on LinkedIn or at leveragepublishinggroup.com, because the world doesn't just need more books, it needs your book. Alright. Let's get to today's episode. Peace.
Ron Rapatalo:Ronderings of the universe, I've got one of my buddies who, like all of my guests, but particularly this guest, who understands the power of relationships as a way of life, as a way of breathing. I want to introduce y'all to one of my homeboys. Although he's from Philly, that's okay. Like, the sport people can get along. It happens.
Ron Rapatalo:I want to introduce y'all to Nicholas Pascale Nicholas, how you doing, brother?
Nicholas Pascale:Excellent, man. Grateful to be a part of your show and love The Ronderings, and so just just grateful to be here.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah, I'm trying to we met I know that you've been to the Ed world, we met through a common LinkedIn connection, if I remember correctly, right? This is like testing my memory being a 50 year old. Do you remember who we met through off the
Nicholas Pascale:I was I was thinking about this. I don't know who we met through. I know of all the beautiful connections I made since knowing you and the way that you've helped shape my career, but I cannot place. All I can say is I was leaving Philly to go to Dallas with my wife Nas, and we were moving because when our family left Iran back in the seventies, they settled in Dallas, we were trying for kids, and then somebody said, you gotta talk to Ron. And I'm like, cool.
Nicholas Pascale:And I LinkedIn messaged you, and you called me late. We talked late, 08:00, 08:30 after the kids went down.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Nicholas Pascale:And the rest is history.
Ron Rapatalo:And then you got hooked up with Rich Harrison. You worked at Uplift for a minute.
Nicholas Pascale:Shout out to Rich Harrison, Anson Jackson, two guys that I really, really look up to. And yeah, and so unbelievable the way that that that story of just connection relationships sprung from that one LinkedIn connection.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. It's a beautiful thing, man. I knew from the moment, like, it's not even the memories, the feeling. Like, every time I've talked with you, Nicholas, you have a warmth and a generosity that belies just like words. Have a I'm sure you get this from a lot of people, which is why you've been able to walk through life the way that you have.
Ron Rapatalo:Because I'm sure that if we had a this is your life, which Ronderings sometimes can feel like admittedly, right, There'd probably be a lot of people would talk about your I'm gonna use the teach for America terms to say I used to work there, right? Generosity Yes. Is
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah. No. I mean, I think gratitude is a game changer And it's perception, right? So we live in the same world, you know, like we live in a chaotic, the world is on fire right now. I would argue maybe more than ever before in human history.
Nicholas Pascale:And, you know, it's, I would say I'm an optimist, but a realist. Right? So I think there is toxic positivity. I do believe in that, but I feel like I don't want that to strip the fact that, we're here, we at one life, and, I do wanna have a joyous existence.
Ron Rapatalo:Amen to that. So let's get into your path to joyous existence, Nicholas. What's your story?
Nicholas Pascale:Story. Alright. So, so, you know, you referenced Philly, but I am a New York native, right? So I left New York because in 2004, when I started teaching, the salary in New York City for a New York City school teacher was $37,590 something a quarter. And so I knew, I was gonna live in my mom's basement.
Ron Rapatalo:That's very exactly you remember that salary number there.
Nicholas Pascale:Right, right. And you know, I remember going like, wow, that's not gonna go far. And so I moved to South Philly and carved it out there. But I grew up in New York, and lived in New York, loved being there, went to Catholic school, met St. John's, grew up in Queens, moved out to the island and was in Philly and really core came, speaking of TFA, the corps came to Philly in 2005.
Nicholas Pascale:And so I was a traditional, I went to college, I was going be a teacher. I was a sped teacher in West Philly, Allen Lock Elementary, 47th in Haverford. But I connected with all of these young people and so many people just thought I was TFA because I was young and an educator and crazy the stories of TFA. And so over the course of just professionally, I did nineteen years, I was a sped teacher, regular ed teacher, AP principal, district leader. Then I was an ed nonprofit consultant, partnered with Bellwether New Leaders, which another connection.
Nicholas Pascale:I know you're at New Leaders, right? And so found myself kind of in this juxtaposition of like, all right, having my first child, I was doing some consulting outside of Ed because as a principal, I felt like I really was like an HR person for better or for worse. Like I dug into the organizational culture side, I dug into the people side, the org design. I didn't love the curriculum, I was okay at it. But I loved creating a team, mission values to a community, being the head of a community and like really rallying around like, what does a kid feel when he comes to school and a parent feel and service to those two groups, right?
Nicholas Pascale:And teachers, of course, as well. And so pivoted into HR at a startup, got laid off and found myself doing this ed consulting, nonprofit work, and came into this place where we'll weave this in, but joined Vanguard two years ago and could not say enough great things about the company, totally mission aligned company. And so here I am working in corporate philanthropy now and still touching education in a really cool way twenty two years later.
Ron Rapatalo:Let's go back to growing up in New York, man. You said Queens to Long Island. Describe like growing up and the values you learned early on from your family and growing up? So
Nicholas Pascale:my Italian family, typical, right, I as you know. I don't look it either. I know. And I know you did a stint. I know you were from Brooklyn and then moved to Queens and it's a melting pot and all that great But yeah, my dad was from Canarsie.
Nicholas Pascale:My mom was from Floral Park, like right behind where the horse races were, right? The Belmont Stakes. And, you know, just really close knit family. My parents were first generation. My dad was first generation Italian immigrant.
Nicholas Pascale:My mom, been here for, family been here for a long time. And, you know, they both worked at JFK Airport. You know, my dad was in baggage, my mom was a ticket agent. Were working
Ron Rapatalo:at JFK when it's called Idlewild?
Nicholas Pascale:You know what? Yeah. It was, I think, it's a great question. I mean, they started, my dad and my mom both started in the seventies. Because my mom did like thirty eight years before she retired.
Nicholas Pascale:It could have been. Yeah, they were there a long time.
Ron Rapatalo:Know, was funny story. The only, you know, that he and I found out that JFK used to call Ottowald watching Goodfellas. I had no idea.
Nicholas Pascale:What an idea. Goodfellas. Oh my gosh. One of the best mob movies. I'm actually watching the Scorsese.
Nicholas Pascale:If you're looking for the Scorsese documentary on HBO Max or Apple TV, it's very, very good. Wow. Good villas, unbelievable. So yeah, so, you know, I have a twin brother and that really centered around, yeah, right. And he was an educator, he's also at Vanguard.
Nicholas Pascale:Are on this ride together, that's beautiful. And anyone that knows us, we are super close. I think really what, not only being from an Italian family, but my dad was diagnosed with leukemia when we were one and a half, and it was terminal and they gave him like six months to live in some miraculous way. He fought it for ten and a half years. So he was always in and out of doing chemo and getting platelets and getting transfusions and all of these things.
Nicholas Pascale:And so I think for us, it brought our family so close together because we realized at a young age, like, you know, dad's it's not it's not always we're not always gonna get lucky enough to have him. And so what do you do in that time? And of course, there's a lot of trauma there too, right? As a young kid to see that, but the beauty that I learned is that family is everything. And also relationships are the things that carry us through every situation and really is our legacy.
Nicholas Pascale:I remember people at my dad's funeral telling him about, you know, the impact he had on them and his smile and the way he carried himself. And so it still lives on today.
Ron Rapatalo:Sounds like Your Father, My Father, Kindred Spirits. You may have heard this in some my Ronderings episodes and some of my Ronderings have written on LinkedIn. My father died but made your hardest happen 10. And I often tell the story of realizing how much people love my father, that I was like, how do you how are you crying as hard as our family's crying at
Nicholas Pascale:the Like,
Ron Rapatalo:these are folks who work my father, friends, etcetera. I was just like, oh, it, he, people really loved my dad. You know what I'm saying? Mean, they came across, I could certainly, I'm imagining like your father, that smile, there was a charisma, people attracted him. There's I call it a je ne sais quoi, which I sense that you and I have inherited from our fathers, right?
Ron Rapatalo:There's a certain kind of like way of being like people gravitate us, like being people magnets,
Nicholas Pascale:you know? Yeah, I agree. I mean, how did that make you feel, hearing that, that people loved your dad that much? Like what was that for you?
Ron Rapatalo:You know, when I was younger, it was one of those things like, I didn't know it made sense to me, but it's like, how is that possible? I I think I wish I would have asked more at that age, kept up with some of those folks. Right? I did it. Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? I was young, I was kind of dealing with my own, you know, pain of, you know, my father passing at that age. Right? My mom having to hold the load for seven of us. And so if I were to go in the way back machine, I think I would have maybe asked, like, tell me what you know about my dad.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? And to hear those stories. Right? Yeah. I know from the way people like, if there was a particular moment that really stuck with me when he was alive, it was my mom and dad celebrating their twenty fifth twenty fifth wedding anniversary in 1984 in her home.
Ron Rapatalo:It was the party of all parties, man. In our home, they're dressed to a tee. My mom's wearing her beautiful white Maria Clara, very traditional Philippine dress. My dad's wearing his barong and black slacks and just being the mayor of the party. I would just
Nicholas Pascale:And living. Yeah. Living. Those like
Ron Rapatalo:You know, it was almost like the It was definitely one of the, like, most joyous parts of my childhood. And I think I saw a particular day, I'm like, wow, people really just enjoyed being around my thing.
Nicholas Pascale:I love that. Yeah. No. There's so many stories, and I still get choked up. You know, people that know my mom and my dad for years and Yes.
Nicholas Pascale:You know, they're like, Nicholas, like, your smile. So it's Bruce, you know, it's your dad. And I'm like, I mean, I I do. I I crazy, crazy look like him. And it's the great it's the greatest compliment.
Nicholas Pascale:Right? Like, my brother and I, it's the greatest compliment to say that we are anything like our dad because, you know, as you know, you idolize, he's still a superhero to me. And, you know, he's been gone thirty one years. Right? Thirty one years this August.
Nicholas Pascale:And I still think, you know, he was perfect. Although I know in my mind he had flaws. I know that, you know, I can remember, you know, me acting up and him, you know, getting angry at me, and he would probably I wish I wouldn't but, like, still, I mean, he was perfect. He was perfection for me as a young kid.
Ron Rapatalo:How was the load with your mom having to take on the, like, solo parenting duties once your dad passed?
Nicholas Pascale:I mean, listen. Shout out to any single moms, like, legitimately. I mean, when I'm left with my two, Olive and Luca, and I'm clearly not a single parent, I have Nas, like, holding it down. We're we're in love, and, you know, we support each other. I mean, it is the toughest job.
Nicholas Pascale:And so I always add the most admiration for single moms. And I think my mom just grace, you know, like she, she, I think, carried so much as you get older, you recognize your parents, you know, they're human. And my mom, you know, didn't date for like seven years after my dad died. Now I know as a 43 year old, when she, my dad died when she was 39, when she was my age, she had feelings of wanting to connect and physically, emotionally, mentally. And she put those all on the side for my brother and I.
Nicholas Pascale:You know, it's things like that where you're like,
Ron Rapatalo:My mom did the same.
Nicholas Pascale:Right? And you're like, man, could I could I be that strong? And can I folk, you know, can I give that to the kids? I know you got the two girls, right? It's like, and you're I think I always looked up to my mom and and, again, like, think she's perfect, you know?
Nicholas Pascale:And I I think I was I was joking. It was her seventieth recently. And I'm like, I found out my mom wasn't perfect, like, three years ago. And like, it was like this minor thing, you know, like, she's just a wonderful person. She's, my wife nicknamed her Joy Center.
Nicholas Pascale:And I think she is just a very joyous person. I think that's where I get a lot of, you know, the energy from, but she's a big people person, you know, and she also weathered that storm in a way where it was like, okay, like Nicholas and Justin need these things, and I'm going to sacrifice for myself. And, you know, I think until I went to school, college in 2000, that's when it like, she was like, all right, I can now get back to living. And so, you know, that's a seven year period. That's a long, long time.
Nicholas Pascale:Grateful for my mom and, you know, also seeing being tight with money. My dad turned our house into a duplex while he got sick, so that paid the taxes. Crazy story here, I am with an asset management company now. But my mom connected, my dad mentored a guy at Charles Schwab who was going through cancer and didn't know if he wanted actually a chemo. So my dad wound up mentoring this guy.
Nicholas Pascale:And when my dad died, he was like, listen, do you have a financial advisor? And my mom, you know, she didn't go to college. Like, No, I don't have a My mom still doesn't know how compounding interest works in the market. And so Jim DeMaio, he's like, I'm gonna put this new guy on my team, you you need to do this. And my mom retired at 55.
Nicholas Pascale:And I share this stat not to brag or but to the power of having financial literacy. My mom never made more than $40,000 a year, retired at 55 years old, because she stayed in her means and she listened to her advisor and she rode the dot coms and she rode the dips and she bought the dips and she just, you know, did her thing. So I think there's a lot there too that I learned about like living at your means, you know, dressing well, but buying consignment, not doing anything full price, like never buying a brand new car. Like these are things I still, no matter how successful I get, like these are just embedded in me.
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Ron Rapatalo:Don't sit on it any longer. Your book could be exactly what the world needs. Those are great values to have passed on to you Nicholas, that's amazing. Let's, pivot a little bit. Obviously you worked in education for a long time.
Ron Rapatalo:How did you choose to decide to be an educator?
Nicholas Pascale:Miss missus Kennedy, first grade. So just yeah. First grade.
Ron Rapatalo:Okay.
Nicholas Pascale:Forest Avenue Elementary went to the left. My brother, Justin went to the right to Ms. Maronek's class and I was a wreck. I'd never been away from my brother. We did, you know, pre K and kindergarten together and I'm crying and, you know, always been an emotional being.
Nicholas Pascale:And she knelt beside me. I can remember this like it was yesterday. She knelt down, she's a beautiful lady. And she just said, Nicholas is gonna be okay. And gave me a hug and just kind of held me just in a way that was very motherly.
Nicholas Pascale:And I'm like, that's it. If I can be that for someone, that's it. I mean, I was a declared education major at seven I went to school at 17 in college, and I was I was signed up. I'm like, I'm gonna be a teacher. Yeah.
Nicholas Pascale:No questions asked. You at first grade. Wow.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. Holy goodness. That's amazing. Yeah. It makes me think when my father passed away, I often talk about this story of mister Saluga.
Ron Rapatalo:He was the most inspirational, like, teacher I had in grade school, probably arguably in K-twelve. And I remember, like, well, there's two moments, right, where one, when I came back from my father's passing, you know, he was just very empathetic. He was like, thank you, Ron, for being here, been thinking about you, anything we do to support you. Right? Just with a level of, like, love.
Ron Rapatalo:And then the other thing that that really sat with me, I remember one moment, he was like, you know, you could really be anything you wanna be. Do you know that? Right? I don't remember anyone told me that exactly that way as a teacher. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:My family did, but as a teacher. So that that stuck with me, like that belief myself and be what I what I wanted to be. Right? I mean, I knew I was a smart kid. I mean, that much I knew was, like, a very nerdy kid growing up.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? But to see have an adult believe in you that way stuck with me for a long Yeah.
Nicholas Pascale:No. That's that's no. That's beautiful. I mean, again, like, it's the the the power of relationships and connection and the universe. Right?
Nicholas Pascale:Like, you know, grew up, you know, in a similar place, in a similar state. You're only seven years old than me, so same generation.
Ron Rapatalo:But the
Nicholas Pascale:way we met, kind of a random occurrence and really someone was like, Hey, this guy is a genuinely great guy and just talk to him. Right? It wasn't like he can get you a it was just like, hey, like, he does this work. You know, he's like a talent shepherd and, like, believes in people. Term.
Ron Rapatalo:I haven't been using this much, but yes, the talent type of term. Amen.
Nicholas Pascale:I try, man. I try, like, and I, it stuck with me. And so and I felt that the moment, but, you know, it's like, how do we show up in that way, you know, for the rest of our lives, right? Like coming back to my dad, and this will resonate with you, and I think there's a reason why we connected. And I think losing our parents, our dads at a young age may be one of those things as well.
Nicholas Pascale:But it's like humanity where right now we are so unfortunately, you know, it's it's a bipartisan thing. It's a political thing. It's a this thing. It's a that thing. Humanity is connected on very, very many, many levels.
Nicholas Pascale:One essential one, we all come from a woman. Right? Very, very important part of our story as human beings. Number two, our hearts will all stop at one point in our life. It could be a myriad of reasons.
Nicholas Pascale:It could be a heart attack, it could old age, it could be cancer, it could be whatever. In between those two moments of birth and our heart stopping is the real goodness, right? And it's all about the connection. And I think about being a teacher and being able to be a Mrs. Kennedy to someone, right?
Nicholas Pascale:That's something that really fascinated me at a young age. I'm like, I could be the person that leans down. And I'll tell you, you had a good experience with the teacher being empathetic. When I came back to school, my dad died 08/25/1994. I was going into seventh grade.
Nicholas Pascale:No one, no teacher, no one. My mom told and later on, I said, did you tell the teachers and the you know, the principal? She said, Yeah, I told everybody that dad died. No one said anything to me and my brother. And I remember, it's really strange.
Nicholas Pascale:I mean, you know, listen, the nineties is, you know, mental health wasn't, you know, going to it wasn't really there, but still weird. I agree. But from that moment, I was like, wow. If I have a student that's dealing with loss or any type of thing, I'm gonna be overly compassionate, empathetic. And I really took that into my practice as a teacher and as a principal.
Nicholas Pascale:And I think, like, it really hopefully, you know, somebody one day will be saying, you know, oh, this guy, mister Pascale. Right? That's the hope.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. You mentioned something earlier that when you were a school leader that culture and building a team particularly fascinated you was, like, your biggest strength. Right? And that makes a lot of sense considering what I've come to know about you is being deeply invested in relationships. With that particular focus on culture and team building, reflect a little bit with me about how that allowed you to lead best as a principal, and maybe maybe add some blind spots or other things that were cons to just not I I don't wanna say singular focus, but that being the thing that, like, you pro like, you really focused on.
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah, no, great, great question. I mean, I think, know, you go back to like, the quote culture eats strategy for breakfast. I believe in that. Yeah. And I think that the blind spots jump to that real quick is that, you know, there are people that get that and they'll love you for it because they're like minded.
Nicholas Pascale:So they're like, oh my gosh, Mascale's a people person. Like, he cares about my work life balance. He cares about the mission. He puts kids first and he puts teachers second. Like, he does the things.
Nicholas Pascale:And then there are folks that may be more academic and maybe like, yeah, I don't bang with that. Know, like he needs to get bigger on the curriculum side, we need more academic coaching. And that's going to move the needle for these kids. You know, it's too soft, and there's too much, you know, love and after you. So what you learn is leadership is a lonely place.
Nicholas Pascale:And really, the higher you climb, that's why I really feel for like, and you work in this space hiring CEOs and CFOs, and the higher you go, the lonelier it gets. Recognize that as a principal. Still, with that being said, one of the greatest jobs I've ever had, I think probably the most important job I've ever had, for sure. But I think for me, was like, all right, if you align mission and culture to actions, right? So if we say students first, teachers second, everyone comes behind them, that's our North Star.
Nicholas Pascale:So if we make decisions and a teacher does something, I'm like, wait, wait, wait, you're not acting in the student first mindset, right? And so they would always say, well, when does a student come second? I was like, well, a student will come second when they tell you to go jump off a bridge, right? Or get physical. But we're going to bring that student back, we're going to reconcile.
Nicholas Pascale:Reconciliation was a big part of the culture of the schools that I led and as a teacher. So they're always going to come back to first. And I had a real problem with teachers that we would ask kids to forgive and forget and move on and reconcile. But these adults would say, would hold it. And I would, you know, in a loving way, of course, can grab them and say, listen, like, you're holding on to this.
Nicholas Pascale:You got they're 13. Their frontal lobes aren't even formed. It's science, man. Like, you cannot expect them. I can't expect higher expectations of them than you.
Nicholas Pascale:And so you really gotta you gotta dead this thing. You gotta come back refreshed. And those were the the pivotal moments where I'd, like, catch a teacher and I bring them back in, or I would tell them, listen, maybe this isn't like, respectfully, maybe this isn't the place for you. If you can't live these norms, you know, there's a lot of schools and I'm not telling you you're fired. I'm telling you like, I am not holding you captive here.
Nicholas Pascale:Like we are going, as long as I'm leading this school, we're gonna act like this. And if you can't, you know, we gotta we gotta have more serious conversation.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. I love that you the way you frame kids first. Right? Because it just makes me, I think, understand that value has a lot to do with the way your parents raised you. You were given multiple examples just for mom and dad.
Nicholas Pascale:Mhmm.
Ron Rapatalo:And I'm sure your great relationship with your twin brother, and then missus Kennedy sort of, like, stamped that. Right? Because you needed that at the time being separated from your twin brother for the first time in school, right? And it makes me go, like, when I think about, you know, having worked at Teach for America, you knowing about your Teach for America stories, it's like, you knew your why I teach for America story. It always makes me wonder at times, right?
Ron Rapatalo:And I think based on how you grew up, you've had a lot of built in, like, self reflection, self awareness built in, right? And I've always gone back into the leadership literature, my own experience, right? That ability to reflect, take feedback, build self awareness. Those are hard things to build. Yes.
Ron Rapatalo:And I think it sounds like you gave people the space to do that, but at the same time, if people were moving along, you were it sounds like even the way you just said it, like, I didn't hear, I'm a use my Luther, the anger translator language, you. You fucking hate kids, get the fuck
Nicholas Pascale:out of You know what was like, you can say it like,
Ron Rapatalo:it was like, a very, like, loving, you know, there may be a bit like, as long as I'm here, this is just the way we do because this is what to believe about kids.
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? They gave people an option, like, I could either get better or like, this is not gonna be very easy for me to be here because you were gonna be lovingly, respectfully, yet on them.
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah. No. I mean, I think I think that, you know, we call them soft skills, and it's a it's a real shame because they're really hard. Right? Emotional intelligence and being able to understand your emotions and self regulate and have self awareness, these are things that, you know, I know they're buzzwords.
Nicholas Pascale:Social emotional learning is more of a buzzword, although thankfully it's becoming more ingratiated for the younger kids. I know your daughters, you know, have so much more access to things than we did when we were in middle school, and I know your youngest is in elementary.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. They have so much access. Have they it's a beautiful because in the bubble that they're in, it's just what it is. It's like the way that my daughter's lost, like, oh, we're gonna go to the Christmas hotel. The Christmas hotel is a nice double treat we stay at, apparently.
Ron Rapatalo:You know what I'm saying? It's like, oh, we're gonna go, like you know, the things about traveling? My oldest daughter wants to go to Singapore. I'm like, god bless you.
Nicholas Pascale:You know what I'm saying? Lucas hit me with Japan. I'm like, I want to go to Japan too. You got to get better on a plane, you know, at first. I mean, he's good, but not for twenty four hours.
Nicholas Pascale:No. But it's like there's beauty in that. And then, you know, I think for me, you know, TFA really, you know, coming back to, I hired a lot of TFA teachers. I went to all of the summits. Actually crazy enough, personally, I met my wife Nas.
Nicholas Pascale:Now she wasn't a teacher, but I was asked to speak at the twenty fifteen, it was in, I don't know if you were there, but in Dallas, there was like the twenty fifth or I think anniversary, something in January. I have a tattoo on my body, January 26 is when I met her. So I know it was that date. But I met her because I came down to Dallas for work that I was doing with Boys Latin and, you know, fell in love and the rest is history. And so TFA, you know, I just have so much adoration and love for TFA.
Nicholas Pascale:Know you were and like, they're just some of my favorite people.
Ron Rapatalo:American, you ain't gotta tell me. Although we did not teach for
Nicholas Pascale:America's Circle. Was like, Oh, you weren't in like the dorms and then
Ron Rapatalo:I did hang out there with my buddies. I'm a shout out to my homeboys who are like Please. TFA Illuminati, although they'll laugh if I say that about them. Michael Embrise, who ended up being the very successful chief operating officer over time in Uncommon, he's now the COO of the GIP Foundation. And then my other homeboy, Christopher Ruskowski, who ended up becoming the secretary of state, the secretary of education in New Mexico for a couple of years.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah. Not not not small jobs. No. That's what I
Ron Rapatalo:Not small jobs at all.
Nicholas Pascale:No. No. No.
Ron Rapatalo:I hung out with them at Philly Institute in o four. You know what I'm saying?
Nicholas Pascale:You were at Temple? Did did you go to Temple?
Ron Rapatalo:No. I didn't. I hung out. I went to visit them. Like, I would Oh, yay yay yay when they were, big dog that he is now just like Christopher.
Ron Rapatalo:So it was just funny, you know, but you would have thought, like, with all my hanging out with Teach For America folks, would have met my wife and alum do TFA circles. No, we met on match.com.
Nicholas Pascale:I love that. The unit, the TFA universe knew. Yeah. There was some keyword search right behind the scenes, some algorithm that was like, oh, you both are T, you know what I mean? And it, and it, there
Ron Rapatalo:What's you funny about that is one of the things I remember putting in for the woman I was looking for was someone who could, you know, have a conversation about x y z, I forget what that was, but then I said, would understand that, you know, public education is like the equalizer, like the civil rights issue of our town or something
Nicholas Pascale:like The equity issue. You
Ron Rapatalo:pitch about that in front of 10,000 people, which my wife could capably do because that's what she does for a living, like moving instruction and people, you know, throughout the country. So she's like, I sort of like brought that into existence in terms of like meeting her. So it was very nice.
Nicholas Pascale:Manifest. Yeah, man. That's amazing. I love that. I mean, again, another connector, right, another connector like TFA.
Nicholas Pascale:My wife wasn't, you know, but I have TFA to thank because if I didn't go to that trip and I didn't, my buddy didn't say, hey, she lives down there, you know, it wouldn't have worked out. Look at that. There we go. There we go.
Ron Rapatalo:It's probably, with the thirty fifth anniversary summit coming up, which I'm sure you're going to, I am.
Nicholas Pascale:I gotta get to I know I'm for sure. Is that in Vegas? Right?
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah. It's gonna be in Vegas. I think it's early October this year that my date's current. So yeah. It's gonna be it's gonna be a big deal, man.
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:So I will be there for business development reasons, but you should too, because you might see kindred spirits in the worlds we're in, man.
Nicholas Pascale:Yes. Same thing. We're trying to break through to TFA. Yeah. So yes, for sure.
Ron Rapatalo:Well, let's talk about the transition from working in schools to ed consulting and eventually getting into philanthropy. What was that journey? What were the moments that got you to those things?
Nicholas Pascale:Well, shout out to you because the reason why I started as an Ed consultant was Anson Jackson, who was the connection with Rich and Anson interviewed me through your connection with so became, shout out to Anson Jackson, who's a partner over at Bellwether. And I really can't say enough great things about Bellwether. I think they're just phenomenal organization, do great work, have great people, have great culture. So I came up at a time, right? So I said I
Ron Rapatalo:was laid off. I was
Nicholas Pascale:in the startup world. I was a chief people officer for this real estate company and, you know, got laid off. And I'm like, what do you do? Call the people that love you, right? And because I believe in having relationships that are long lasting and I'm pouring into them constantly, it's not like a, Hey Ron, and I reached out to you too.
Nicholas Pascale:I know you're gonna remember that too. I reached out to you. I reached out to Ann. So Anson put me on, you know, there was a great contract. I worked with Albuquerque Public Schools, six months, and I did a bunch of other small projects and, you know, having one kid and another kid on the way, like it huge for me financially and just also in my confidence.
Nicholas Pascale:And so I loved it. I loved, you know, looking at it, I could see my career and go like, wow, starting as a sped teacher in West Philly, got to the principal level, great, was a district leader, cool. Now I'm working nationally with, you know, Albuquerque Public Schools and, you know, DCPS and and and, know, District of Columbia. Like, it's like, this is really full circle. Like, I I felt the gravitas of that.
Nicholas Pascale:I I really think every time I entered a building or if I was virtual or I was in with teachers or principals or the CEO of the district, it was like, I feel so honored. Like there is like a legitimate, and I'm sure you feel that way when you are finding these people and because you believe so deeply in like people matter and they shape organizations. Like when you're talking with these folks, you're like, wow, like how did I get to do this? Like, you know, do you feel that way? Like when you're leading these searches and you see all of the like ways that things aligned?
Nicholas Pascale:I mean, what's that like for you?
Ron Rapatalo:Quick pause in the action here. I know a lot of us leaders, entrepreneurs, folks just trying to do good work and felt that grind of pushing a boulder uphill by ourselves. The learning is you don't actually have to do it all alone. Genius discovery program at thought leader path, like having a think tank in your corner, It's not some cookie cutter formula but your story, your plan of impact, giving you the clarity assets to take the next big step. I've seen people go through this and walk out with their voices amplified and these sharpened.
Ron Rapatalo:Some even launching podcasts like this one, Ronderings. So if you're tired of grinding in the dark, you're ready to step into your impact with right support, check out geniusdiscovery.org. Yeah, I mean you know it's funny right, it's feel after a while right, I don't like so what's interesting is I think when I first started doing searches, right, I think I might have been a little bit too prescriptive. I may not have trusted my natural intuition and people instincts, right, because many of the places that I've worked in Ed were around, you know, you know, stereotypical Ed reform. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:And I'm not knocking at rubric. Rubric's
Nicholas Pascale:more? Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:You need competencies in those things. Right? But I think I'd learned, and this is particular, I think one of the things I kind of learned being at new leaders was one of the ways for me to, like, understand the rubric and the selection competencies was to try to live those myself. I would, like, speak this language and understand it, right? And so people would often, like, in my new leaders days was around was really the peak of my what I call my single and ready to mingle days.
Ron Rapatalo:And so folks always tease me about, like, Ron, do you have a rubric for your dating? I'm like, you know, actually not really. It was feel, right? Because I think I governed my romantic or my like, you know, that life part of me very much by like feel. I sort of knew what I wanted, but it was feel, right?
Ron Rapatalo:After a while, I think working in the hiring world, which was a bit more prescriptive, I had to learn to blend that kind of like more art part of trusting my intuition and my instincts, right? And so it's interesting, one of the very first things that I learned was, you know, not it's that not to trust your gut, but you have to find a way to marry your gut to the evidence that's for you, right?
Nicholas Pascale:I- Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:Although I think that's important, but I think I've learned, like, if you ask me now, when I think about when I have led searches, have been involved in searches, which is more what I do rather than leading searches these days in my business development role, is just, it's my people instincts around understanding people's values and how they got to be where they are, versus, like, classically interviewing people. So, I mean, I will hold what I call a classic informational interviews with people. I remember this role I was supporting for stronger consulting for education leaders of color, right? So I would hold a lot of convos because I knew once I put it out to market, I've been now, it'll be nine years in April I've been a member, right?
Nicholas Pascale:Out of that luck, yeah. Being
Ron Rapatalo:affiliated with the search, people would just go hit me up anyway, so like, I might as well be proactive put it out there. I mean, it was something like 10,000 views on the post that I did. People hit me up left and right messaging. You know? And I had to be selective on which people I would talk to and not.
Ron Rapatalo:But at the end of it all, it's feel about the people you're talking to and hearing a little bit about their story. Right? And my role when I think about these things, right, is to say, look. There's a process you're gonna go through, and I can tell you whether or not from feel like you could probably go long at this. Right?
Ron Rapatalo:But at the end of it all, like, you have to understand, like, my role in this because I'm not leading the search these days Right. Is to give you a sense of, like, temperature, but this is me predicting. It's not, you know, final. Right? When I would lead searches, I could put admittedly my thumb on the scale a little bit more because I had a lot more oversight and communication with candidates to sort of see how the funnel was going, and learning a lot about anticipating what clients were looking for, what candidates were looking for, and really matching that.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? So it was a lot of like it'd be a lot of conversation, having to listen, anticipate things, what, you know, clients were feeling, what was missing, and figuring out how to relay that to candidates. And so, you know, for me, was like playing the trust equation on both the client and the candidate part. The client's paying you though, but if candidate's not in the mixing, they're not paying you, you can't fulfill what the client wants, and so there was often this balance of having to understand this is the person that's paying you, so there's a level of like servicing them. But ultimately, I learned in doing searches, right, that I think the listening to candidates and really building rapport and saying, look.
Ron Rapatalo:And I would say this is a lie, but it was really true. It was like, if this is not for you, that is okay.
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah. Safe place. You
Ron Rapatalo:should go, like and to feel it out, like, based on, like, where they were. It's like, it's okay if you withdraw. This is not for you. We should build, like you know, I felt really good about the relationships I built with candidates, particularly because there are times I was like, this might mean this search goes a little longer because we lost someone strong. But the end of it all, there's nothing like keeping someone in process.
Nicholas Pascale:Yes. The next one.
Ron Rapatalo:Feeling matched to the role because they're not gonna stay as long. It's the they may be misaligned. And so, you know, for me, there was always a little bit of, like, having to thread that needle of understanding the client and the candidate and using a little bit of, like, just judgment, stress that people had at you in holding the process to be able to, like, move things accordingly. Right? And then letting go and saying, like, ultimately, I'm just giving you advice.
Ron Rapatalo:You have to y'all gotta make decisions. Like, I you know, when you're when you're at the in between and you don't make the decision, I was like, look. I'm not here to make decisions for you. I could share some questions, some advice, and some think abouts, but I'm not you.
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah.
Ron Rapatalo:So I can't you give me your rubric how to think about it. I can help you think about it. Right? So a lot of it is being able to, like and this is where I think particularly what I enjoyed most is the coaching aspect of doing these things, which translates really well to doing business development. And I'm sure with your transition now to philanthropy, I think what I've always seen of you, Nicholas, your your ability to build really strong relationships, you're a really strong coach.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? So I'm curious. How did you get into the world of, like, being in, you know, corporate based philanthropy? Man.
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah, it's a great I mean, listen, I think to touch on to what you said, I think you really do a great job of just being your authentic self. And that word is, you know, it's sometimes tripe, I mean, it's so beautiful. Like when you say feel, you're really saying this this is the wrong factor. Like, isn't I went to NYU. I'm smart.
Nicholas Pascale:All these but like, this is something that like is a part of my identity through the fact that I'm, you know, all the things. I'm Filipino, I married, you know, Shanida, like all the things. And I think that's the beauty of living really boldly in that and just being, it's not everybody's cup of tea and you will, you know, listen, like you will lose business and, but I think you'll gain way more than you lose and it will be long term. So just wanted to really shout you out on that because I do think that that comes across in everything you do. And it's why I, one, wanted to be a part of this, but also also stay connected to you.
Nicholas Pascale:And because it's like, crave intimacy. And the only intimacy you get is when people are like really themselves. You know what I mean? There's, a multiplier effect there. And some people find vulnerability very easily.
Nicholas Pascale:Some, it's very scary for a lot of reasons, and that's fine. But, you know, it's really great when you can cut through the stuff and be like, this is who I am, good, bad, and different. Like take it, hopefully take it. But if not, that's cool too. And I think for corporate philanthropy, I mean, that's kind of the way it kind of happened for me.
Nicholas Pascale:Right? So I joined Vanguard. I am working in HR. I'm supporting our Office of General Counsel globally. So Vanguard, you know, global company, 22,000 employees.
Nicholas Pascale:And there's this program called My Custom Economy. It's our free financial literacy tool. And I'm like, I'm going to volunteer on this program. Like, I believe in this, like shared story about my mom, you know, having financial freedom due to relationship. I do think like, let's be real, we don't teach two things really well in school, health and mental health are about our bodies, emotional well-being.
Nicholas Pascale:Like we don't teach kids, and adults and young adults about that. And then secondly, we don't teach about wealth. Kids know the Pythagorean theorem, but they don't know about compound interest and indexing. And so, like, there's a real need for this. And, you know, listen, I want to be honest with you, without your health, like, you know this because of your dad, without your health, wealth doesn't matter.
Nicholas Pascale:My dad would have given up everything he had to be healthy and to see me and my brother grow up. But if you are healthy, the second most important thing for you to sustain a life for your family in this very capitalistic world that we live in is to understand money, right? So I'm like, long story short, I'm I'm in this program, I get to go out to Seattle, a principal conference, my brother gets to go because Justin works at Vanguard. So we're just geeking out. We're like, oh my gosh, like, how do we get here?
Nicholas Pascale:Daddy would be so proud. Like, I this amazing right? Like, we're at this amazing and he's in product, you know? And I'll tell you another connection. How we got to Vanguard was through a board member.
Nicholas Pascale:My brother was a board member at TFA Philly, and a very senior person who is a just just wonderful, he retired from Vanguard, just a wonderful human being, Jamie Delaplane. Believed in my brother, my brother was at Comcast. He wasn't really feeling the culture and brought, you know, Jamie was like, hey, like there's some roles and like, you know, was somebody who spoke up and said, I believe in this guy. They have the Dallas office open up four years ago, I'm in Dallas and same thing. Jamie was like, hey, you should, right?
Nicholas Pascale:So again, relationships, people who are listening, right? All about people. You don't get anywhere without people. And so I do the volunteer work. And so the woman running the program, Janet Moynihan, just retired.
Nicholas Pascale:And so it's like, oh my gosh, you should apply. I'm like, oh my God, this would be full circle. I mean, getting back in the ed social impact world for a corporate company, and this is unbelievable. And so long story, right? Get the role, started about two months ago and just can pinch myself, right?
Nicholas Pascale:Like I cannot, when you think about your professional existence and you, like, I could have never have imagined stepping into a special education classroom of, and I worked with like severely, you know, high disability, right?
Ron Rapatalo:Like wheelchair,
Nicholas Pascale:nonverbal, know, change in diet, like real beautiful and wouldn't change it for anything. But when I walked into that classroom as a 21 year old, and you would tell me at 43, I'd be working in corporate philanthropy at the second largest asset management company on the planet.
Ron Rapatalo:Yeah.
Nicholas Pascale:Working in school. Wait, how does that even happen? Well, I can tell you relationships, relationships, deep seated relationships. And it's a beautiful thing to think back to all the people and you're a big part of that story, Ron. And so thank you, legit.
Ron Rapatalo:Well, before I ask you the Ronderings question, Nicholas, this is a question I've often been asked, like, how do you maintain and cult well how do you maintain the relationships in your life at your work right? Because I think when people ask me that question I have to think about it a little bit because it comes so organically to me and then I start locking it down around my use of social media helps me do that best because there's a structure of being able to be on social media and the hack on it that kind of naturally helps me remember people. Because if I leave it to, like, my 50 year old memory, I'm only gonna remember too many people. Right? But checking news feeds and things and birthdays and people saying they got a job or all these things.
Ron Rapatalo:Right? And it's good for business development for you need those things because the people aspect of remembering things about what's going through people's lives as they're willing to share it helps me, how did you know that, Ron? That you posted. Right?
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah. You know what
Ron Rapatalo:I'm saying? But I'm curious, like, what how does Nicholas do it?
Nicholas Pascale:You know, simply reaching out and telling people, hey, I love you. I'm thinking about you. How are you doing? Right? Like, it's it's such a small thing, but there are people that I just love so deeply.
Nicholas Pascale:And I will think about them on my ride home from work or, you know, even in a meeting, my mind will dance or somebody will say, you know, oh my gosh, like they'll say their name, like my buddy Bobak, who is in Crown Heights and a TFA alum and now I'm aware. I just love, I love him. Like, he's my brother. And, you know, I married a Persian. He's Persian.
Nicholas Pascale:I always say he's my first Persian love. You know what mean? I'm like, that's my first Persian love. You know? And I just there'll be times I'm like, and Farsi means my love.
Nicholas Pascale:Like, like, are you? What's up? You know? It's just reaching out. It's just the simplest thing, but it's like, it it really changes someone's day.
Nicholas Pascale:And it really also we all live busy lives. We all have kids. We all have, you know, spouses or or, you know, jobs. But it's like, what do you do at 09:00 when you got the kids down and you're about to like turn on the documentary? And it's like, you kind of have watching and it's like, just reach out to people you love.
Nicholas Pascale:Hey. And that's really been the secret for me is, you know, staying connected through these intimate moments and storytelling and just, hey, let's FaceTime. Right? Like putting it out there first and being vulnerable because, you know, there's you want people to get you and you want people to understand that you're genuine and but, you know, like, it's not science. It's easy.
Nicholas Pascale:Like, I know that if I reached out to you, you would reach out and you would you would you would put me on in the way that you could, and you would be loving towards me. And so I just then forever until my heart stops, I want to be connected to you in some way, form, or fashion.
Ron Rapatalo:And to to bring it back full circle, I imagine having your father stay alive for an extra ten plus years when he was given six months to live, and embracing every ounce of his life while he was alive, and you witnessing that. I imagine that becomes part of the impetus for what sounds like a very relatively simple strategy to say if you think of someone and you love them, reach out. Don't wait. Right? Because you, at some level, you never know when someone will be in your life because we don't have control over that.
Ron Rapatalo:Right?
Nicholas Pascale:That's, I mean, that's a 100%. So when you understand tying it back, you know, so people that are, you know, listening like this long, thank you, number one, know, we are all mortality. Like when you don't grow up with a terminally ill parent, you don't really figure out the mortality thing. So you're way too old. And so when you're young and you're like, wow, I am not going to live forever.
Nicholas Pascale:And that person who I love, a car accident happens. Plane crashes happen. Cancer happens. I have a friend, a really good friend, another TFA alum, who's terminally ill, who's got two weeks to live. And it's like, you just never know.
Nicholas Pascale:And so I credit my dad and my mom for instilling the fact that, like, that's the most important thing, and that's your legacy. Your legacy are listen. At some point, somebody's gonna say, Ron made me feel this thing. Ron, right? Nicholas, that's it.
Nicholas Pascale:The money can't go with you. The car can't go with you, the house, the whatever, the title. It's about the way you make people feel. And so there was a real fear growing up and I would think about it, it's very morbid, but I'd be like, what are people gonna say at my funeral? What are people gonna say And about I'm sure you felt this.
Nicholas Pascale:It's like this beautiful thing that our dad's taught us is like, pour into people, be vulnerable, live life out loud, like prioritize relationships, hug people longer, kiss people, tell them you love them. Right? Be free with your with your love and your care and your kindness. But, like, it's also one of those things where as a kid and the trauma comes in, right, you're like, oh my gosh. Like, I should not I should not be thinking at 12 that everyone dies.
Nicholas Pascale:And then I will, you know, like but that's the existence, and that's how we grew up. And that's what shaped us. And, you know, it's hard as a parent, like Luke and Olive, Lord willing, universe willing, won't have that. They'll have two healthy parents for a long, long time. But that's our story.
Nicholas Pascale:And what do we do with that? What do we do with that?
Ron Rapatalo:So this is a apropos time. We're about almost fifty minutes into this Ronderings. To ask you, what is your Ronderings? What's the lesser value you wanna share today, Nicholas?
Nicholas Pascale:It's hopefully woven through the the recording, but it's really truly that life is measured in love and kindness through relationships. Like, that's the only thing that touches eternity. Right? Whether you're a believer or not, that's it. And whether there's heaven or hell or purgatory or reincarnation, I can go through all the religions.
Nicholas Pascale:We know that this life is temporary. And as we have breath in our lungs, what better way to live than to love? Like it's the great equalizer. You look at the genocide happening right now in Iran. Speaking of my family, 90% of Nazi families in Iran, you look at Ukraine, you look at Sudan, I can name, you look at Gaza.
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah, you look at Venezuela, you look at what happened just in Minnesota. And you look at what's happening in our country. This is not a political thing. This is a we need love. What the world needs now is love, sweet love, Burt Bacharach.
Nicholas Pascale:That's my Ronderings. That is my Ronderings because that song is really catchy and really beautiful. But if you really understand the concept, our world can be made better through love. And once I lose that, I can't lose that, Ron. I can't.
Nicholas Pascale:That's what I want people to hold on to that in their darkest time. And listen, we've all been there. Like what the world needs now is your light and you are beautiful. And you know, while you got breath in your lungs, while your heart is beating, tell people you love them, reach out, be loving, be kind, put people on and do the best you can to make the world a better place.
Ron Rapatalo:Hey man, you know what song I started going through when you were talking about measuring our life in love? I went immediately to Rents and Seasons of Love.
Nicholas Pascale:1,000, 2,500, 2,008.
Ron Rapatalo:He liked Yeah man. And cups of coffee. That's right man. Well, Nicholas, before we end, how do people find you? What would you like to promote?
Nicholas Pascale:Yeah. So LinkedIn is my only social media. When I became a principal, got rid of Instagram and I was like, not that I wasn't posting things that I would be proud of, but I was like, this is easier for me to just be on a professional website, like LinkedIn and social media. So really for me, look out for truly, like in the work that we're doing at Vanguard, financial wellness is a big part of our portfolio in our corporate philanthropy, look out for our products. And we are gonna do some amazing things there.
Nicholas Pascale:So just look out for that coming soon and growing. I think that's a huge as we talk about as we're here in this world, you know, let's focus on our wealth, let's build generational wealth for our little ones and we can do that in a real beautiful way. So that would be what I would like to
Ron Rapatalo:promote. Awesome. Well, Nicholas, brother, thank you for your time. The words of one of my favorite sports heroes, I hand off every Ronderings episode and the words of Dion Sanders, we always come in hot. I'm tired.
Ron Rapatalo:With guests like Nicholas Pascale.
Nicholas Pascale:See you brother.
Ron Rapatalo:Before we close, I wanna sit with something Nicholas said that hasn't left me. When you learn early that life is finite, you stop arguing about things that don't matter. You start investing deeply in people. Nicholas reminds us that culture isn't a deck. Reconciliation isn't soft.
Ron Rapatalo:Leadership isn't about holding power. It's about holding relationships. Whether you're leading a school, nonprofit, or a global corporation, the question is the same. Who are you reaching out to when the day finally slows down? Because titles fade, strategies change, people who felt seen by you, that's the legacy.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm grateful to Nicholas for his honesty, his optimism, and as a reminder that connection is the work. If this conversation resonated, share it with someone you care about. Until next time, keep Ronderings. Peace. Before we wrap, I've gotta give a huge shout out to the crew that helps make Ronderings come alive every week, podcasts that matter.
Ron Rapatalo:Their mission, simple but powerful. Every great idea deserves a voice. So if you've been sitting on that spark of a show or story, don't overthink it. Just start. Head to podcastsmatter.com, and let their team bring your vision to life.
Ron Rapatalo:Till next time, keep pondering, keep growing, keep sharing your voice with the world. Peace. Thank you for listening to today's Ronderings. I enjoyed hanging out with me and my guests, and I hope you leave with something worth chewing on. If it made you smile, think, or even roll your eyes in a good way, pass it along to someone else.
Ron Rapatalo:I'm Ron Rapatalo, and until next time, keep rondering, keep laughing, and keep becoming.
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